To wonder if I’m just old and possibly on the wrong side of history

[bambambini]

I do wonder if we are possibly seeing the start of a huge shift in society and how people are generally perceived. Many of our young seem to want the future to be different from what we've always had - man/woman, male/female - the binary i guess.

Maybe the future will be where everyone is non binary, where all divisions as we inderstand them are broken down. So you won’t be able to tell for sure what sex anyone is, what body parts they have etc.

I’m critical of the current identity politics debate but that doesn’t mean to say I’m right. Maybe I’m struggling with getting my head around it and accepting it because I’m much older and grew up in different times.

We’ve already seen a huge change in social norms with women getting the vote, the break down of racial segregation, legalisation of homosexuality etc. Maybe identity politics is the natural progression.

Ereshkigal

That post wasn’t directed at you but just in general - didn’t mean it to sound like i was sniping at you, sorry.

No it's ok, and you're right. There is no point earnestly arguing with people who don't post in good faith and are on the wind up. Who say that they needed to take a shower after reading feminist posts.

Hang on a minute, if an 80:20 ratio is a good one then that's an argument for saying that gender dysphoric children should be left well alone as if untreated (ie no chemotherapy to delay puberty or cross hormones) 80% get to the other side of puberty reconciled to their bodies.

Now in the UK children are being prevented from receiving therapy to address any underlying issues because therapists who do not go straight to an affirmative approach are very difficult to find and parents that want to hold off on transitioning (even if it is only social transitioning) are being vilified rather than supported.

These are very difficult times for non conforming or confused children and their parents. If the OP was right it would be very different. Children would be taught that they can be as 'masculine' or 'feminine' as they want, both are just fine/ equally meaningless and their bodies are also fine just as they are. The trans agenda should be kept far away from children especially those who are especially vulnerable because they are autistic, have been abused or have mental health issues.

A lesbian who declares that other people ought never be allowed to distinguish between the biological sexes because 'gender', whilst knowing how critical that sex distinction is to her personally, is the ultimate hypocrite.

We must all be compelled to pretend biological sex is unimportant to us, whilst you define yourself in reference to biological sex and your relationship to it.

You cannot be homosexual without acknowledging sex.

We are all Sapien.

We depend on one another. As a species, we are terrible at individual survival.

Together we can do anything.

Silently

It is an absolute untruth that the feminist boards do not discuss FGM, equal pay, domestic violence. You might not be lying, but what you are saying is untrue.

I'm 27 and it's utter madness to me.

Hang on a minute, if an 80:20 ratio is a good one then that's an argument for saying that gender dysphoric children should be left well alone

Boom.

Anyone who quotes those fictitious suicide stats is instantly discredited in my eyes.

It’s also in credibly irresponsible because it risks a situation where kids do start attempting suicide to “prove” they are trans.

Anyone quoting those and advocating puberty blockers is no friend to children.

I don’t know who you are silently but I find your agenda very sinister indeed. Get your claws out of our kids.

Why would we want to medicate children? In what world is that a good outcome when we know that it leads to a lifetime of medication? Hos is that any way comparable to the civil rights movement, or gay rights? This could erase both, it erases homosexuality, maybe trans black is next. Who benefits?

Why this surge in drugs for the kids but less medication for older trans?

I'm 27 and it's utter madness to me.

Hate to tell you but you’re also probably too old to get it.

Dunno, little Owen Jones is in his late twenties...

The feminism boards have understood that this issue affects ALL of the other issues that have been mentioned. Making the proposed changes to the GRA would be an easy way to undo all the efforts of both feminists and other civil rights movements like disability.

The CEO of Mermaids took her own child, underage, to Thailand for surgery - now that's the ultimate genital mutilation, is it not?

I've been a mental health and disability activist for 20 years and I've won awards for my work with huge organisations supporting those who need it most. Using suicide stats to guilt parents into medicating children is an abhorrent thing to do and it is extremely damaging - I feel my experiences give me the necessary status to say that with authority and this is the very first time I've ever felt like my job supporting others is at risk for doing exactly that. It's the biggest twisting of an agenda I've ever seen.

The autism issue has been mentioned but maybe Silently could comment on how we tackle the over-representation of Autism in people identifying as trans? As it stands, people with autism struggle with their sense of self and identity and feelings of not fitting, which, when combined with being vulnerable to influence (because the majority of us don't lie or manipulate and don't expect others to either- this is an autistic trait) we can be easily led down the path of identifying as trans in order to belong - we can easily be convinced that if we change how we present (or our bodies etc) we will find the magic key to our feeling of otherness. Using autistic people in this way is disgusting and experts in the field of autism have publicly said that autistic traits can present as gender dysphoria, as can trauma for women who've suffered abuse. All of this should be explored by medical professionals but if trans is 'not a mental illness' then access to that sort of intervention will not happen. There was even guidance for schools that suggested autistic children be shown what their gender was to encourage them to choose to be a different one! We've spent decades trying to get rid of gendered play in schools and now suddenly we should reinforce it to the children who have the most trouble understanding vague concepts like gender?!

The trans movement directly impacts on disability rights when exclusions based on sex are concerned and when spaces designated for people who cannot physically access things like toilets are being used by those who can physically use another toilet but want to be validated in their chosen gender. This is in no way benign and it should concern anyone who cares about vulnerable children or adults.

And not forgetting that the transsexuals Silently keeps referring to are getting some horrendous abuse for speaking out against this new wave of trans activism. The movement is transphobic in itself and to support it is to accept transphobic abuse purely on the basis on someone being trans, which is the opposite of what feminists on the boards here are saying.

We are in dangerous territory because events are unfolding now, and we have no historical experience to act as a guide. I think normalisation of LGBTIQ in schools does more harm than good, as it cannot be constructively questioned/opposed by parents. I would like an individual to make informed life changing decisions when they are of age. Ideally, it should be 24/25 because at that age we start to become the person we will be for the rest of our lives. From a practical point of view, I would say let individuals make the decision as of the age of 18.

This is a considered piece of analysis about trans suicide figures

This is an interesting blog about why transgender ideology is a disaster for women - and it's by a very sensible transsexual

Albadross

Heartfelt post.

I agree that transgenderism has been twisted out of all recognition.

In a few short years, helping men with the very rare condition of gender dysphoria has resulted in the potential of people like Ian Huntley, a double child murdering rapist, being sent to a female prison. Purely on his say so.

I dont understand the blindness to the insane trajectory that transgenderism is on.

The original GRA was, of course, not designed to facilitate predators. Whether in prisons or bathrooms.

But it is having that effect.

Hence Justine Greening's postponement of the consultation.

I should imagine they are frantically trying to work out how they can maintain the original objective, in the face of this juggernaut of activism that has an entirely different agenda.

What a pity they didn't listen to women who they said 'purported to be feminists'.

This is a link to a book due for release in January about the 'transing' of children - it's research based and will be a useful resource for those who want to extend their knowledge

And finally this, a somewhat controversial take on where this 'new trans' ideology comes from - the author is transexuall

Silently your analogies and comparisons are now veering from ridiculous to embarrassing to distasteful.

My mother spent all last week in hospital. She's receiving palliative care for cancer. Twice I witnessed an elderly and completely naked man, covered in his own shit, wander into my mum's cubicle. It's not his fault. He's coping with dementia and flu. The poor man is most likely not even aware that his dignity has been so heartbreakingly compromised.

Of course my mum's immune system is suppressed. But there are no other beds. Half the ward has flu.

And YOU come on here, with your pathetic circular definitions of woman and your half arsed "statistics", and bringing up cancer and asking us to imagine the torment of a man not being able to try on a fucking dress with teenage girls in Topshop.

Back in the real world men and women are suffering pain, indignity and loss. Take your cancer comparisons and please just stop. The lengths people are now going to, to try and justify this madness, are now beyond the pale. Have a word with yourself.

You cannot debate with this person, someone who has consistently lied, made purposefully outrageous statements and claims - and who will twist and turn at every point

So why even try? I imagine I'm not alone in learning a vast amount from the differing, but sensibly expressed views on these threads, but every so often a poster appears who quickly trashes their own credibility in the way you've described - very possibly with no intention other than derailment

Best ignored, really

Do you recognise that what I was objecting to was being told that mixed ward are unanimously hated? Why do people think they have the right to make that decision for me?

Granny, do you think mixed wards should be an option available to everyone? Your framing of this is bizarre, trying to challenge the generally held view that most women prefer sex segregated wards. And you appear to be expecting sympathy that you wouldn't he able to share a ward with men. Ridiculous. It's a consent issue where women want privacy from men, not your way round.

The government have pledged to get rid of mixed wards as they perceive the public don't like them. So you'd best start a petition then, hadn't you?