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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder if I’m just old and possibly on the wrong side of history

328 replies

bambambini · 29/12/2017 19:52

I do wonder if we are possibly seeing the start of a huge shift in society and how people are generally perceived. Many of our young seem to want the future to be different from what we've always had - man/woman, male/female - the binary i guess.

Maybe the future will be where everyone is non binary, where all divisions as we inderstand them are broken down. So you won’t be able to tell for sure what sex anyone is, what body parts they have etc.

I’m critical of the current identity politics debate but that doesn’t mean to say I’m right. Maybe I’m struggling with getting my head around it and accepting it because I’m much older and grew up in different times.

We’ve already seen a huge change in social norms with women getting the vote, the break down of racial segregation, legalisation of homosexuality etc. Maybe identity politics is the natural progression.

OP posts:
PositivelyPERF · 29/12/2017 20:36

Most people get on with their lives not really caring what's in anyone else's pants unless of course the owner of those pants is a woman that is a lesbian who a TIM wants to sleep with, because they identify as a lesbian. Funny that so many TIMs identify as lesbian, if what's in other people's pants is very unimportant.

lessworriedaboutthecat · 29/12/2017 20:36

@Maryz at least it will be a unisex toilet.

Its not just Trans though. We're being divided by race and sex too.

ferntwist · 29/12/2017 20:37

Trans people are thankfully no more likely to be murdered in the UK than anyone else. Source: Trans Murder Monitoring Project/ONS

SilentlyScreamingAgain · 29/12/2017 20:40

Sorry, I should have been clearer, looking more closely at the figures, it's stranger murders.

I don't want to pass over what you've pointed out about women bring murdered by their partners or ex partners in massive numbers, it's shocking, it's awful and I'm ashamed that it's something passed so much by some feminists who are so busy being 'gender critical'.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 29/12/2017 20:43

Sorry, I should have been clearer, looking more closely at the figures, it's stranger murders.

Yes because being murdered by someone you know and love if much better than being murdered by a stranger Hmm

Again, if there is such a huge epidemic of trans people being murdered and committing suicide then how are there even any transsexuals left?

SilentlyScreamingAgain · 29/12/2017 20:43

I would also point out that the 90's were twenty years ago so again I say why now. Why are people getting so worked up about something that affects a minuscule section of the population who are not being persecuted in any way shape or form.

That's the thing about equal rights, it's always minorities who want them.

grannytomine · 29/12/2017 20:44

You know the KKK said that the civil rights movement trampled on white people's rights too? Whenever a group seek to be treated equally another group claim that they will be pushed down the pecking order. This is so true. When my husband's parents married in the 1940s she was treated as being like a prostitute because she married a black man. To be honest it still wasn't great in the 1970s my husband still gets insulted, ignored in shops etc. We do live in a very "white" town but it still staggers me that people can be so ignorant and think it isn't fair that someone who is a different colour has as much or more than them. We had all sorts of hassle when we moved into our house 20 years ago. I remember when he got a very important promotion and other police officers told me he only got it because of his colour, they just couldn't bear to think he might actually be better than them.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 29/12/2017 20:44

*is

guardianfree · 29/12/2017 20:44

Gender critical feminists don't 'pass by' the rates of women being murdered. In fact we are appalled that so many men (and some women) support self ID and therefore remove sex segregated spaces and render so many more women vulnerable to male aggression and violence.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 29/12/2017 20:45

That's the thing about equal rights, it's always minorities who want them.

What rights do trans people not have?

guardianfree · 29/12/2017 20:47

Born men in women's refuges, in rape crisis centres, in women's showers and changing rooms. That's what self ID will result in.
Here you are: here's a recent charmer who's a terrible threat to women and children (and is allowed to access women's safe spaces):

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/12/28/ryan-terry-torn-between-all-of-envy-lust-and-hatred/

SilentlyScreamingAgain · 29/12/2017 20:48

...unless of course the owner of those pants is a woman that is a lesbian who a TIM wants to sleep with, because they identify as a lesbian. Funny that so many TIMs identify as lesbian, if what's in other people's pants is very unimportant.

As a lesbian, I've pointed out numerous times on MN that I have had lots of experiences of people feeling a sense of entitlement to my body, mostly straight men with straight women trailing slightly behind. No one seems to care about that becaus it doesn't fit in with their agenda.

WhatHappenedToSunday · 29/12/2017 20:49

YANBU. im young and hoping it's a phase in society that dies out.
I do wonder if it is an effect of so much female contraceptives lingering in the water system now. Feminising fish stocks and altering human homones and/or hormone receptors

treaclesoda · 29/12/2017 20:51

Yet only 8 trans people have been murdered in the UK since 2008.

And in addition, they fell into already high risk categories in terms of being a murder victim. eg sex workers, or people already in a violent relationship.

I may be wrong but I read about all the cases recently and whilst there have indeed been trans people who were murdered, I don't think any of them were murdered because they were trans.

helpfulperson · 29/12/2017 20:51

I think we are on the edge of changes we cannot imagine. Conception is changing so much with IVF, donor insemination, three parent children etc. The whole concept of Male/Female, Women/Man, Mother/Father, traditional families and relationships. These are all going to change. You only have to look back to the days of our parents to realise how fast the world is changing.

SilentlyScreamingAgain · 29/12/2017 20:51

Gender critical feminists don't 'pass by' the rates of women being murdered. In fact we are appalled that so many men (and some women) support self ID and therefore remove sex segregated spaces and render so many more women vulnerable to male aggression and violence.

Women are usually murdered by their straight, binary partners or former partners, a groupe that doesn't need to follow them into public loos.

underneaththeash · 29/12/2017 20:52

I think most of society (in our country) is very accepting and unless you're doing something that is hurting someone else or against the law, you can generally do what you want to. We have a traditional family, who do traditional roles, but we have gay family members and I hope that my children understand that we would be accepting of most lifestyle choices they make.

However, young and teenage children's views change over time and I think the current view amongst some to prescribe puberty altering drugs early is wrong. Sometimes, choices can't be reversed and we have a duty as a society to protect our vulnerable members.

The other issue we have is sport; men are usually naturally taller and are stronger than women, so in a competitive situation are more likely to win. (which is obviously unfair).

guardianfree · 29/12/2017 20:53

And some are murdered by strangers. But don't let that worry you if it doesn't fit your narrative.

SilentlyScreamingAgain · 29/12/2017 20:54

...but we have gay family members and I hope that my children understand that we would be accepting of most lifestyle choices.

Neither being trans nor gay is a lifestyle choice.

PositivelyPERF · 29/12/2017 20:55

I have no time for straight men or women trying to manipulate a lesbian into having sex with them, but now you have men who identify as women that will call you a bigot because you won't sleep with them, because they have a lady dick. Or are they different, silently? If you think they should be identified as women, does that mean you should be happy to sleep with them?

salmonofwisdom · 29/12/2017 20:55

YABU, stay on the wrong side of history as we try to make things better for everyone else.

SilentlyScreamingAgain · 29/12/2017 20:56

And some are murdered by strangers. But don't let that worry you if it doesn't fit your narrative.

Sorry, how many British women were killed by transsexuals who followed them into public loos last year or in the last ten years?

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 29/12/2017 20:56

Trans activism is a men's rights movement and it is homophobic.

trans activism decrees that men can be lesbians and women who don't sleep with men are transphobic. This is nothing like the fight for gay rights. The fight for gay rights involved the right to have a same sex relationship without persecution. What rights are trans activists fighting for?

The right to end same sex sports, the right to end same sex refuges and changing facilities. The right to re name 50% of the population.

This has nothing to do with gay rights or black rights, this is all about taking away women's rights.

guardianfree · 29/12/2017 20:58

OP. If the wrong side of history means ensuring women have access to sex segregated spaces in prisons, hospital wards, personal care, sport for women, then I'm happily on the 'wrong side'. And when it comes to protecting children from those grooming them online and persuading them to take life changing untested drugs (often BEFORE puberty begins) then I am unashamedly on the 'wrong side'.

SilentlyScreamingAgain · 29/12/2017 20:58

I have no time for straight men or women trying to manipulate a lesbian into having sex with them, but now you have men who identify as women that will call you a bigot because you won't sleep with them, because they have a lady dick. Or are they different, silently? If you think they should be identified as women, does that mean you should be happy to sleep with them?

This hasn't happened to me but it did apparently happen to one lesbian. However, I've had loads of straight men and women who have felt that they are entitled to ask me to join them and their partner.

Does that mean I should dislike and mistrust all straight men and women or should allow the, fewer human rights than another group?