No presents for DD?

[ilovemilton]

DD has been no contact with abusive DF since the summer, “breaking” the court order, but with his permission.

DF texts her in Nov, asking her what she would like for Christmas. She gives him a list. It’s the first time he has attempted to make any contact with her since it broke down. They have never had a good relationship.

DS attends contact on Christmas Day, she asks for her presents to be sent back with him. DF replied “nope, you chose to break the order, you get your presents when you attend.”

Tonight he brought DS home, with a bag of presents “from the family, not the ones from me.”

He knew all along that she won’t be attending again, they have no relationship at all.

AIBU to either expect him to send the presents, or not to have ever even asked what she wanted? Is he playing a cruel game or should DD just accept the consequences of not seeing him?

@ilovemilton that is a very nasty and mean thing to do to your DD. At least she has now seen his true colours and will (hopefully) remember this experience.

However also I would be encouraging my child not to accept gifts from someone she does not want a relationship with. I say this coming first hand from my own situation with a parent. If you don't want them then that includes their money/gifts.

I know, but I’m in a very difficult position with court being imminent again. I can’t risk residency being transferred. They’ve said I would then have to start application for a whole new case to even get supervised contact.

To be fair though, she’s made it very clear to him the last six months that she was never attending again. He knew that.

I hope you have a record of all those texts, OP, they must count for something.

Oh dear OP, I don't think you should have broken the court order

she’s made it very clear to him the last six months that she was never attending again. He knew that.

..but that's irrelevant since the court has explicitly ruled that she MUST go whether she wants to or not.It is going to look really bad that you didn't send her for several months, and then only again so she could get presents.I hope you have a very good solicitor

Ah ok, I've read that SHE did not go to the contact.
I am very concerned that you are going against the court order though and letting her miss contact.
you have been warned that the consequence of this could be you losing residency.

You cannot make a child go to contact, especially if their op dd age. Cafcass have said contact until 18, that is cruel and basically emotionally abusive. How are you going to drag a 15/16 year old to contact, tgey know their own mind and are almost an adult, yiu cannot make them at that age.

they shoukd not have to.

OP, I think the system is cruel and unfair to children and their parents who have been through abuse. I'm so sorry they're continuing to make your life so difficult, when you should be able to shut this man out for good.

It’s ridiculous isn’t it? The judge once said at the end of a hearing “and if Mrs x could manage to not call the police again before the next hearing, that would be helpful.” The case lasted four years.

How can we put our trust in such inept, unfeeling, clueless judges? Where's the justice?

So your being beaten up an threatened, and the judge is telling you not to call the police, shows how out of touch and stupid thry are. Of course there are good ones, but you only hear about the bad ones like this.

Sorry but if he is the horrible father that he is, with your DD clear she wants nothing to do with him because she knows he is a bully and horrible person, what made her think it was still acceptable to accept presents from him. That screams of her becoming as manipulative as he is.

My DS has made the decision not to see his father any longer last summer too. His father is devastated but has made no attempts to sort it out. I understand why my DS doesn't want to go any longer and it's been brewing for years, but his father can't see it unfortunately and thinks all efforts should come from DS. He had hoped that he would come for Xmas but DS had decided that he wouldn't. It wouldn't have cross his mind a second to expect presents from him or ask for anything even if his dad had called him to ask.

It's obvious that he made promises of presents to try to get her to start contact again. She should have said no thank you last November.

You cannot make a child go to contact, especially if their op dd age

she is only 11! Presumably Op would make her go to school if she didn't want to.

No she is 12, op has said

Abusive contact and school are two very different things.

A child needs school, but they do not need contact with an abusive father

Cafcass have recommended contact until 18, so do you think op shod make the young person aged 14/15 or even 17 go against their wishes. That is against their human rights and emotionally abusive. You cannot make a young person that age do anything they don't want

The trouble is, I don’t do anything without thinking what cafcass would say about it. They blame me for everything so I had to decide between

“She didn’t even let DD accept presents from DF.”
Or
“There has been no contact for sox months.”

I don’t think she was trying to be manipulative. She has made it clear she doesn’t want to see him, he’s told her that’s up to her and then offered presents. I think she just thought she might as well say what she wanted.

There is not enough information to form a fair opinion here. It is terribly sad when contact between child and parent breaks down. I do believe that these people have their reasons for suspecting parental alienation though. Why are they coming down strongly on the side of the non resident parent? No one is clever enough to repeatedly fool the courts and cafcass. It is rare for a court to refer to the number of tines the police are contacted. I think op that what your daughter said to her father about seeing him on Christmas day comes across as very hostile and you appear to condone that. His solicitor could well use that against you. If it were me I would tell her that she was rude to him and it is very rude to ask for presents from someone you are rude and unkind to. She is very young yet and doesn't understand the impact and consequences of her actions.

do you think op shod make the young person aged 14/15 or even 17 go against their wishes. That is against their human rights and emotionally abusive. You cannot make a young person that age do anything they don't want

.She isn't 14, or 15 .She is 11, going on 12.Very much still a child.
Irrelevant anyway. the court has ordered the child needs to go or the OP might lose residency..She has been explicitly warned of this!

However, DF is telling her she doesn’t have to go, and hasn’t collected her on the two occasions this term that I forced her to go to the collection point, after receiving a letter telling me if she didn’t go he would return to court.

Whilst I laugh about her responses, it doesn’t mean I stand there and encourage her to be rude. I stay out of it. He’s not making any effort to fix their relationship.

Exh “but it’s Christmas...”
DD “exactly. The last day I would want to waste on you.”
I've just read this, how dare she speak to her father at 11 (she is almost 12) like that and you thinking it's acceptable.

And you really believe that she told him in their conversation in November when she gave him a list (not just one present but a list) of what she wanted that she would expect her brother to bring them back and he agreed then?

I am not surprised the courts are seeing you as the manipulative parent. If my DS spoke to his dad like this after expecting presents from him, I would be livid. Your DD sounds like an absolute brat.

I think you are under the impression that contact is a nice experience for them.

Last year they were there for Christmas morning. There was no tree, no nice food, no magic, no stockings, one present each. Fair enough I suppose, but then he wandered in with a sack of presents for himself, saying he must have been good all year and santa only comes to your mums house.

I expect she is still holding a grudge about that?

Milton

He sounds like a wanker. However, you and your dd are not doing yourselves any favours by allowing her to write such things to him. Surely you want to be protecting her and you, not giving him cannon fodder to use against you. Her text will likely be viewed as her mother manipulating her into saying such stuff should this go to court. The last thing you want is to give him evidence to support his case.

Have you documented the two times when you took your dd to contact and he failed to take her?

Everything is documented. Including two other times when he refused to collect them as per the order, spending all day telling me to take them to him, then turned up at 9pm and told me to fetch them out of bed so he could take them to his house for his contact. Then threatened court because they didn’t attend.

The rude bit was the verbal conversation at the door. Her texts are quite clear and give good reasons for her not attending. He however, responds to her like a child himself and the texts she receives from him are dreadful.

ilovemilton, my posts are not about judging your DD decisions not to see her dad any longer. As said, my DS has stopped seeing his dad, and even though this is against my own wishes (and regularly try to encourage him to do so), I understand his reasons which I do think are valid.

What I find shocking is that you seem to think that her reaction to her DB not bringing back presents and the way she responded to her dad was an appropriate response and one that he deserved. How can you think it ok to expect a list of presents but then tell him that she would have been a waste of a day to spend Xmas with him?

Even with my DS refusing to spend Xmas with his dad, I would have given him a massive telling off if he'd spoken to his dad that way. As a matter of fact, that would have resulted in me taking back the presents that I'd given him!