To tell my DCs "Don't even think about it"?

[inabizzlefam]

My Dcs seem to be under the impression that when they marry and have children, i'm going to provide them, as a "loving grandparent", with free childcare whilst they go to work.
AIBU in telling them that, whilst I have no problem with babysitting if they want to go out for an evening, they will have to get a full time childminder or Nanny in order to pursue their careers?

mammmamia

Take it how you like. It's what I think and if it offends you, maybe have a think about why that is.

The poster I was responding to declared that GPs have nothing better to do than look after their GC. Parents should have nothing better to do than look after their beloved children. When there are two parents and the vast majority of childcare is outsourced, people will draw their own conclusions, and they don't have to be be conclusions you agree with.

YABU

Do you expect them to look after you in old age? Do you have a choice in aging?

Does your ‘dule’ Also work with people who have a chronic illness and reduced mobility? (Because that’s what arthritis is, esp if you are at the point of not being able to sleep at night due to the pain)
Or is the point when actually your dc should start looking after you?

charleston

You've actually said "people are careless with their fertility" and have children to accessorise their life.

Neither of the above apply to me but I still find your words inappropriate and distasteful.

Your implication is also that both parents shouldn't work and 'outsource' childcare and I also find that view abhorrent in 2017.

My expectations of family childcare/ babysitting can fit comfortably between the following brackets... ()

I knew long before TTC that for a start, I lived too far away from any relatives, and that they were the wrong age group, either too old to cope with the demands of young children or too young and still working FT. So I have always known that my work/ childcare arrangements have to work with the potential of me doing it solo (on a logistical level) as DH is likely to be unavailable at short notice. I've had to use friends and neighbours occasionally. The only time my D(G)M babysat was for a couple of hours so DH and I could attend a funeral in my hometown, and for us doing a race in my hometown because both events were brief and local to her.

She looked after my much younger sibling so my mother could return to work long enough to keep her full maternity package and as a sprightly, youthful 60 year old she still found it draining so I never had an expectation of childcare into her 70s.

It's nice if you're fortunate to have local relatives in that short-lived window of being retired but with spare energy. There is always the potential cost of granparental influence not matching parental expectations anyway.

I think the ‘tit for tat’ attitude that if you don’t provide childcare on tap, then why should your kids care for you in your old age, really stinks. Sad that some people view relationships as a series of transactions

It’s entirely reasonable to not provide free care (it’s a massive commitment) and it would be utterly selfish for an adult child to ‘punish’ the grandparent for not doing it. There’s no automatic entitlement, just as there’s no automatic right to be gifted House deposits

Having said that, dh and I would happily help out (provided we are retired) not because we feel we should but because we’d want to. Oh and providing it’s what our children want. You do read some threads here where grandparents are foisting themselves as childcarers when the parents feel the children would benefit more from nursery

And btw those of us in the age bracket to be grandparents, didn’t all have it so easy... we didn’t receive any help from our own parents, and yes, house prices were lower but mortgage payments in real terms weren’t - those of us who lived through the era of interest rate hikes had a precarious time of it, and even when rates were more stable they were massively higher than today. Also childcare wasn’t subsidised by free hours, and for many of us lasted much longer because we were back at work after 12 week maternity leave. So it’s swings and roundabouts really- yes it’s tough in some ways for the younger generation, but if my adult dd decide to have kids, they’ll be able to have 9 months or even a year off work, their partner will be able to have some time off (even just the two week paternity leave is two weeks longer than my dh had) and their children would be entitled to an amount of free childcare from age 2 or 3

So I wouldn’t see dh and I offering help as a kind of ‘duty’ to pay back because we had it easy - we didn’t! We would offer support because we want to. Neither would we see it as a transaction which then entitles us to old age care

I'm late fifties, retired and have looked after my grandchild for nearly 2 years since she was 3 months old. I offered to do 2 days a week and she goes to nursery the other 3 days. We have her overnight at a weekend once or twice a month too. It works well for all of us. My daughter and her partner get some free childcare and a chance to go out, and my husband and I have a very close relationship with our granddaughter. They appreciate our help and we aren't given a list of rules - they know that we love her as if she were our own and are very safety conscious. I have the rest of the week for my housework, friends, hobbies and going out. I'm fit and healthy and don't see my time with granddaughter as a chore, we have lots of fun and she brings a lot of joy to us. We had no help with our own children for various reasons but I'm pleased that we play a key role in family life. Where we are grandparent childcare is quite common.

I won't be in a position to provide free childcare and both my dd's know it. I'll still be working when they have their children, as my pension won't be paid till I'm 68 (like most of us my age). That would mean my dd's would have to be having their children in their mid/late 40s, which I seriously doubt they will do.

I actually feel a bit bad about that, as my parents provided me with free childcare for dd1 till she was at school. But my dad had been a sahd when we were younger, then cared for my grandma, and hadn't gone back to work after Grandma died as he had health issues. He hasn't worked since he was 32. Dh and I won't be in the same position as we will both be working ft until our health stops that, which would also make us unsuitable to look after babies/toddlers full time too.

I think the ‘tit for tat’ attitude that if you don’t provide childcare on tap, then why should your kids care for you in your old age, really stinks. Sad that some people view relationships as a series of transactions

I agree. It’s horrible.

It also massively overlooks the fact that parents have already done their childcare stint the first time round. Why should they do two lots?

To be honest, grandparents providing childcare isn’t a new thing. It used to and unremarkable for grandparents - and the extended family as a whole - to be very hands on. In many families, it still is. Personally, I can’t wait for my kids to be old enough to have little ones and will be as involved as they want me to be in the childcare. In return, I hope they’ll care for me when I’m elderly and can’t care for myself. If you don’t want to do lots of childcare that’s absolutely fine - just tell them so. But don’t make out hoping for hands-on grandparents is some modern “entitled” thing.

I look after my mum in her old age even though she never provided childcare because I love her and because of the love and care she’s given to me over the years.

I never said both parents shouldn't work. I said I don't understand what drives people to have children when they plan to outsource the vast majority of childcare. If the joy is not in bringing up the children, what is the motivation?

Having children is a selfish endeavour anyway, that just takes the selfishness to a higher level. It may upset people to hear it but you can't argue against it because it's the truth.

I also wonder how many of the people who seem to think GP childcare their due - will actually find when they get to that age, that they don’t want to do it either.

Yanbu. I had dd1 at 26 and dd3 at 39. I worked full time and paid for every second of childcare for all 3
My pil were elderly. My dad died before retirement, my mum worked then moved away at retirement.
Unless something extreme happens no way would i be a childminder for grandchildren. Might be in a position to help a bit with childcare fees but ive already been a parent for 23 years and the youngest has just turned 10!

That was to mammmamia. Ever heard of part-time work, one parent staying home for a few years, working from home, flexible working, self-employment? I never said both parents shouldn't work.

And the fact that my dmum and pil did not provide childcare has no relation on how i treated them in old age. Love and respect.

I have one DD & another baby on the way. At no point did it ever occur to me that my folks would provide on tap, free childcare! They adore DD & often take her in the holidays, but the expectation that they would have her daily would have earned me a clout!!

My mum stayed with me for the first ten days after i had DD & that was invaluable; i know that if i got stuck & they could help, they would.

If they needed care at any point i wouldn't hesitate. They have done their parenting time, for which i owe them!! They don't owe me childcare for anything

I certainly don't expect my children to take care of me in old age.

Whoa, you lost my support at 'this generation expecting help'

We put ours in Nursery to go back to work - which we had to do in order to be able to afford to live, it's not always about careers.

But perhaps the father should give up his career and bring the children up so the mother can peruse her career?

It isn't a gp responsibility to raise their gc. If you are unable to look after your own children and work then something has to give. This should be thought out before children are conceived. Just because you want something doesn't mean you're going to get it. Even if you are retired and fit and healthy it doesn't mean you have nothing better to do with your time than doing the whole parent thing again.

I look after my parents in old age and I don't have kids. I'm gobsmacked that anyone would link that care to GPs providing childcare.

OP, do I understand correctly that your DD has had a baby and her maternity leave finishes in a few weeks but she has not arranged formal childcare? Have you actually told her that you will not be providing childcare, using clear and unequivocal words rather than hints, eye-rolling or martyred sighs?

You ANBU to not want to provide free childcare, but I think YAB a bit U not to correct her belief that you will in time for her to book formal childcare. Is she even going to be able to find a childminder or nursery at such short notice?

I was a bit lost on why you were so resentful, but from your last post I know. Sounds like you don't push back and say no to them, time to start!

My DM would help us with childcare and I know MIL would too, they'd both probably do a day. We've done the sums and have considered whether we can afford kids, odds are we will stop at the one if we do because we just won't be able to afford two (we are good earners I'd say too). Time to start saying no for you I think!

I understand not wanting to be a main source of childcare. But I don't understand not wanting to help out your children/grandchildren if you can if it's just here and there or in emergencies. Some people refuse even that and I just don't get it. But then I come from a family where we actually like to help each other without conditions. Maybe an idealistic view of family but I think families should want to help each other out if they're stuck. As I said, not as a main source of regular childcare though.

The thing is people are cutting back. The birth rate is falling because people cannot afford children. And nope cutting back on coffee will not make the £70 a day childcare affordable. And yes mortgage rates were high but lending & depositis were nowhere near as prohibitive.

I work with someone who went down to three days s week when she was 60. On the other two days, she looked after her GC. Then, her DC had another child, so she now looks after two preschool children two days a week. Plus she has an elderly parent who she looks after.
She is worn out and really should do less. I've seen her age before my eyes. So, what should she stop doing?