To leave 8year old DS home alone?

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After relocating for my STBX and him promptly leaving me and DS, we have no support network at all, really struggling for money and I have to find new employment (had been freelance)

Firstly, DS is a really sensible boy and has no problem fending for himself when I’m working (from home), has lots of indoor interests he busies himself with and knows what not to do.

Basically my AIBU is how unreasonable would it be to leave DS in bed on school holidays only, go to work for 6am (job is 15min drive away) and be home for 11am?

He will be asleep for at least 3 hours and has no issue with the idea himself.

My DS is now 16 so I've been struggling to recall at what age I left him for how long ... certainly I know I left him alone at home for an hour or so before I let him walk to/from school because mr belief is that a child who clearly understands the 'don't answer the door' and has phone contact with parents is safer than crossing a main road ... but I'm thinking DS was probably nearly 10 when I first left him briefly at home. I also recall my DS not liking waking up at home alone - and this being as recent as age 13.

I think some posters do get a bit hysterical in these sorts of threads but on balance I don't think I'd be happy - even if my DC stated they felt quite confident. I don't know what the answer is for you though - the only thing I can think is asking around the other moms at DS school regarding child minders or maybe swapping child care e.g. You could look after their children on days you don't work.

jemsy and apples

Really helpful replies, thanks.

It’s true, I am/was just panicking. We’re not here long at all and I’ve had no time to build up connections etc.

The late nights doesn’t seem such a bad idea now (for the summer months)

One of the ads on this page says “Do you need childcare?” What a time to be alive!

I feel much more positive about everything now, thanks again!

Only you can answer this. Depends on the child.

NDN has a 10 year old who I wouldn’t leave alone for 5 minutes. He’s still very needy and “babyish” who is clingy to his Mum and acts not very sensible and helpless.

Other neighbour’s child is a year younger and very independent, astute, articulated and perceptive. Would have no issue leaving him for a couple of hours.

I am a local authority child protection lawyer and yes the local authority and the court would view this as neglect . The child would be deemed to have been placed at risk of significant harm (physical and emotional)

Moreover, if something were to happen and the police attended your address for any reason , your child would most likely be removed from your care under the powers of police protection and you would most likely be arrested - either for child neglect or child cruelty.

This post is not necessarily aimed at you OP but at the other posters who are advising you that this is ok, with no knowledge of safeguarding law.

Haven't read the other posts so may be repeating points made already: the answer is in the Young Persons & Children's Act, 1933. Also have a look at NSPCC guidelines. Basically, you can't leave him alone - likely to be deemed neglect. That your son is not phased by it is irrelevant; at age 8 he is too young to give informed consent to anything.
Have seen parents (ie mothers) prosecuted and convicted for a lot less than going to work whilst child unattended for 3 hours.

Advise? Don't risk it.

I was a very mature and sensible eight year old when my parents split up in the late seventies. We were very poor (had to share a bed for ages as only one set of blankets), we had no family around ( had to flee a DV situation to a new town), and had no support at all really. Mum got no benefits and worked very long hours on a low wage. She wouldn’t have dreamt of leaving me alone, and cobbled together care between hiring school leavers to look after me after school, befriending the neighbours, and sometimes taking me to work. It wasn’t easy, it she always found a way. I hope you do too.

My youngest is 15 and a half and still don’t like leaving him alone, although I do if I have to.

In six months he is legally old enough to get married. In the absence of additional needs that really is ridiculously overprotective. How are children meant to become functioning adults if they are never allowed to take any responsibility?

I got left alone for far longer than that when I was the same age. Not a problem.

Runningoutofcharge - You sound deeply unhappy. This woman has been through hell and is trying to find a way out for her and her child by going to work. She may have to find another way (work from home/re-train as a childminder/relocate nearer to family/make new mum friends locally) but she does not need your negative input, so I hope your battery has finally run out of charge. OP, this is for you. I believe in Karma. Where are you based?

I am a local authority child protection lawyer and yes the local authority and the court would view this as neglect . The child would be deemed to have been placed at risk of significant harm (physical and emotional)
Just very interested by this response. You are clearly as knowledgeable as can be, so does this mean that the child would AUTOMATICALLY be considered at risk without any investigation just because of his age?

I can totally understand doing an investigation because there could be a potentially risk, but surely it takes a bit more than just the element of an age to decide when a child is capable of something or not? My kids are now 15 and 18 and what I've learned as they grown in the difference in maturity, resilience, judgement etc.. between kids. Getting to know my kids' friends, it was very obvious that some of my youngest friends were a lot more mature and responsible than some of my eldest's, 3 years older.

Something would have had to have happened.
It’s ridiculous to suggest anyone who left their 8/9/10 year old would be prosecuted, on the grounds that they were left for several hours on several occasions, but were capable and well cared for. They would have to be at risk of significant harm.
And that would have to be demonstrated.

There is no defined age in the law about an age a child can be left because children develop at different paces and circumstances differ. It is left for the parent to decide.

Precisely Roderick the law is clearly ambiguous and says nothing about the minimum age, after 6, and dependant on parents' risk assessment, depending on the child.

Something will have had to have gone badly wrong.

Swiftofthings: the key word is "deemed" so, yes, the court automatically assumes that the child is too young to be left alone.

Roderick rules: over 30 years of working as a Family lawyer suggests you are wrong: it is not ridiculous to suggest that anyone who leaves their child alone would be prosecuted: if you get caught you will be - it happens on a daily basis ! The "significant harm" IS the being left alone for several hours on several occasions. The only matter the court would have to decide is 1. What sentence the mother should receive and 2. Whether the child should stay in her care (with or without social worker support).

Think about it: how on earth would anyone be able to objectively prove a child of tender years is mature? To rely on the opinion of the parent would be self-serving and unreliable given it is the same parent being investigated/prosecuted. The parent at risk of imprisonment will never say the child was immature or irresponsible.

This is a really interesting debate. I suspect sympathy for the mother is clouding people's responses to what is, in Law, a clear answer to a clear question.

Then why does the law not say '8'???

Why is it so ambiguous?

The law is not clear AT ALL though.

The law is clear about many things but absolutely not clear about this.

Sympathy for the mother is not clouding my opinion at all. I would happily leave my DD (9) and did at 8 and she is more than happy/safe/warm/cared for.

I would not be arrested in Spain, where I live, it would be laughable. I have teachers reports etc to back up that my DD is highly responsible and mature. (Not that it would ever come to that)

The proof could be reports from other professionals.
The lack of evidence, ie nothing has happened.
Lots of us here saying we were left alone, some of leave our children without event, make the least worse decision and are good enough parents!
Social services ought to be stepping in to assist before they prosecute.

The best place for the child is with the family, no?

Stop fear mongering.

Then why does the law not say '8'???
Absolutely. What you say Jazz despite your claim of expertise doesn't make sense.

Judges follow laws, so how can it be automatically deemed to put the child at risk without any investigation unless it is written black and white in the law?

If you are correct, what age would be 'deemed as you say' acceptable? I left my DD alone to get up alone and go to school every morning from the age of 11 when she started secondary school. Would I have gone to jail automatically if someone had reported me, or would it have been 'deemed' ok because she was 11 and not 8 (even though she could have been a lot less mature and responsible than OP's son).

I'm really sorry that you are in such a difficult position OP, I really feel for you.

If you are in the U.K., my input for what it is worth is that you should listen to the professionals who have posted, child protection leads, police officer and child protection lawyer who have all advised that it is not ok, rather than listening to other opinions.

Have you considered going and talking to the Citizens advice bureau in your area? They should be able to advise you regarding the debt your ex left behind, whilst also being able to advise you what benefits you are entitled to.

Best of luck OP, I really hope you manage to resolve your current predicament.

The Court can't automatically assume the child is too young when there is no minimum age limit set in the law or any strict guidelines. It would clearly have to be decided on a case-by-case basis if the child was at risk or not.

I would not be arrested in Spain, where I live, it would be laughable

Same here, completely laughable. I used to look after a 7 year old for a couple of hours after school until her dad finished work and one day I had a meeting with DD's social workers during that time so I asked them what I should do with the 7 year old as I obviously couldn't take her to the meeting - they were a bit baffled by me asking that because to them 7 was plenty old enough to take care of themselves for an hour or so while I was in the meeting so I ended up telling her to make her way to the town library after school and hang out there until I finished.

It does seem very young to be left alone for that amount of time, but only you know how your son would be on his own.

Firstly good luck ... hope you find the solution right for you your child and your circumstances ... At 9 I was 5ft 8 and used to take neighbours babies to the park ... from the age of 5 I was out all day with kids on my street .... none of our parents knew where we were ... we,d climb trees in the woods mess about by streams go over to shops if we had a few pennies and ride bikes all over our local area ... we all survived ..
If you bring up kids in fear rather than giving them sensible ways to cope and react in different situations then yes don’t EVER leave them alone ...

I must add that those who think that SS know what is right and wrong need to look up a few case histories ... those that think that the only answer lies in having a family member or baby sitter ! does this not carry as many risks or more or are you being selectively naive...
Children are most at risk from the people they know...
A good parent makes decisions based on what they know and are comfortable with as they have to live with any outcome .... mischievous naughty children ... tend to need minding but others resond to responsibility ... there are children out there caring for sick parents ... doing the weekly shop and more .. there are children in this world walking miles for water .... cruelty is something most often done with intent ... don’t label people who are trying hard to do right with the hand life has dealt them ...

The NSPCC advise that children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time
children under 16 shouldn’t be left alone overnight
babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone

I love that there are social workers, people who work in family law and child protection who have come on and said it's not ok - and yet there are still a few posters in denial sticking their fingers in their ears crying 'it's perfectly ok! I would know because I'm a great parent!'

Pure gold.

I must add that those who think that SS know what is right and wrong need to look up a few case histories
Even if thats true and the child protection workers are all in the wrong, is being "right" (in your opinion) going to help the OP much when her kid is in police custody?

we,d climb trees in the woods mess about by streams go over to shops if we had a few pennies and ride bikes all over our local area ... we all survived ..
Obviously we're the ones who survived because as far as I know there isnt MN in the afterlife
However not all kids survived the lack of supervision:
Growing up 2 of my neighbours kids died in "tragic accidents" which nowadays would have seen the parents convicted (one involved an unsupervised child gaining access to heavy machinery). The other one drowned. Alone. And wasnt found until much later.
One had an accident due to again, playing un supervised around machinery, which was life altering.
Many in my small community were raped as children by the same man under circumstamces that wouldnt generally happen by todays standards

I dont think my 70s community was all that unique, DH grew up somewhere else entirely and has equally hair raising tales of accidents and near misses..

"....and we were fine.." - not all of us!!!