Angry at friend about abortion and the situation she’s put me in?

[BornInSydneyy]

My friend has had numerous abortions. All with the sane boyfriend .., I’m guessing about 8 at this point.

I try not to judge because I’m very pro choice. But I don’t agree with abortion as a form of contraception .. it’s very conflicting.

She’s now lied to family members that I’ve gone with her to support her during the abortion and I’ve had her family messaging me about it ... this all happened in the space of 10 minutes! ... I’m so angry. I want nothing to do with the lies, aibu?

Reallytired - yes, counselling doesn't always work, but we should at least try, don't you think?

Gwen, I think it’s misguided to see counselling as the go-to cure for all manner of problems.

What do you suggest then Really?

I don’t.

People are far too complex to assume one fit is the answer, the magic bullet, the way forwards. And pardon my cynicism that the magic bullet generally comes at around £50 p/h.

This thread is awful and I wish I hadn't clicked on it. I've had two terminations, should I have had the babies and given them up for adoption? Should I be sterilised? Am I an awful person? Should I have been charged so the money can be used to fund childless couples IVF? No. You have no idea of this woman's circumstances and I would be mortified if I stumbled across a thread of people ripping me apart for having multiple terminations.

But I definitely resent my contributions to the NHS being used to give females countless abortions simply because they bloody want one.

Most women don't WANT to have an abortion. I didn't want to have either of mine but I couldn't have/ didn't want a child at that time. Get off your moral fucking high ground about your 'contributions to the NHS'. Do you resent smokers, overweight people, those that do high risk sports etc?

@rickandmorts don't make the mistake of reading the mean replies and not the many many replies that support women's rights to make their own decisions about their own bodies.

As early/few as possible. As late/many as necessary.

we havent been given any information about OPs friends relationship though, so under the assumption that she isnt being raped or coerced, she is effectively using abortion as a form of contraception. which is wrong, regardless of the right to terminate a pregnancy.

there are a number of steps you can take to stop yourself becoming pregnant.

don't make the mistake of reading the mean replies and not the many many replies that support women's rights to make their own decisions about their own bodies.

I know @MrsTerryPratchett it's just hard not to focus on them 😒. It's the same on social media, I just see posts all. the. time telling me what an awful person I am and I'm fed up of them.

Why are the family vexed up at anyone accompanying her to the clinic?

As a recurrent miscarrier - can people please stop berating women who have abortions for my sake? I wouldn't have got to keep my pregnancies if other people weren't allowed to terminate theirs. If anything, repeated miscarriage strengthened my long held pro-choice views. It's awful not being able to control what's happening in your own body - not being able to keep a pregnancy you desperately want makes you feel powerless and terrified, and I have no doubt that a developing pregnancy that you don't want makes you feel similarly out of control of what happens inside you.

I agree that there's no limit to how many abortions is 'ok' - it's a woman's decision to make, as many times as she wants to. Certainly she may need help with contraception and counselling, but at the point where she's pregnant she needs that as well as the abortion, if that's what she chooses, not instead of.

Well said @LisaSimpsonsbff

Wow, what a pathetic downturn this thread has taken.
Post gets deleted because someone reads something into it which it doesn't directly say, and is based on personal opinion of the poster about themselves, not others.
And if you use the word 'female' in a post, you're now a misogynistic arsehole.

Sendin do you really think there is no moral issue around abortion? I am pro-choice and have people very close to me who have had abortions and I'm very very glad that they did.... It was better for them. And if they had to have another I certainly wouldn't want them to be 'punished' in any way whatsoever.

However, just because abortion is a right and is often for the best - not only in circumstances of rape but for any reason to do with the needs of the mother, whether that be physical or mental health or a desire not have a child - doesn't mean there is nothing moral about it at all.

I'd support anyone's right to an abortion for pretty much any reason but in this situation something isn't right. If this person is so against having children that they would go through eight abortions, what else is happening that means they have become pregnant eight times? It's not just a case of 'they are entitled to have as many abortions as they want' because of course they are, but something isn't adding up to a healthy scenario here, it is disturbing.

Abortion is not meant to be a form of contraception. It really isn't. I've had an abortion and it was horrendous. After that accident, I was so bloody paranoid and careful I used to double up on contraception. It's really reckless to just keep getting pregnant and having abortions. What's wrong with the pill? Or condoms? Or the coil? Or an implant?! Of course there's no 'limit' on the amount of abortions that are 'OK' but there's something not right if you'd rather keep terminating pregnancies than just prevent yourself getting pregnant in the first place.

MNHQ why was my post expressing my own personal opinion about abortion deleted when so many supporting abortion remain? I saw the heartbeat of my 7 week baby on a scan, a week later I miscarried. The heartbeat to me meant that was a life-form, the miscarriage to me was a death. Abortion to me is extinguishing that life-form. I never said I would never have had one, I said I would have to take the emotional and moral consequences if I did. All this stuff about it being a woman’s choice because it’s their body I struggle with tbh, in my opinion as soon as you’re pregnant there’s another person’s body inside you.

@TheRottweiler I have fallen pregnant whilst taking contraception. Twice. Once it ended in miscarriage, once resulted in a much wanted DS. Contraception is not foolproof. Either time I would not have take the morning after pill as I was taking contraception, therefore why would I take the MAP?

I also want to second a PP that said don’t speak for me. I’ve had a few miscarriages and support my friends that have had abortions 100%. I would not rule out abortion for myself if the circumstances warranted it.

And if you use the word 'female' in a post, you're now a misogynistic arsehole.

No no. People who use the word 'females' to describe women, well... the Venn diagram of that and people who are misogynist arseholes is very close to a circle. Not my fault that's true. Have a little look at the views of people who describe women that way. It's almost always true.

Dogs, seahorses and parrots can be females. Women are adult female humans.

Julie Burchill had I think 6 abortions. She was quite open about using abortion as a form of contraception.

I hope no politician in the anti-abortion camp is reading this thread as I can't think of much better ammunition to promote the case for restricting abortion or reducing the time limit than some of the "oh I don't care if abortion is used as contraception" posts on here.

Contraception is widely and freely available in the UK. Women should accept responsibility for their bodies and use it. And before some of you start yelling that I am a forced birther- I am not. I support and make regular donations to the Abortion Support Network in Northern Ireland.

And the OP is not being unreasonable. She should not be forced to lie for her friend.

The sad but undeniable fact is that abortion ends a human life.

A lot of people will yell blue murder at that statement however human life is formed at conception, which is something that even Ann Furedi, CEO of BPAS has very happily conceded in public on several occasions.

Decisions around abortion centre upon what particular value you ascribe to that life form, on account of its stage of development, sentience and physical relationship/dependence upon their mother.

Therefore it isn’t unreasonable or inappropriate to state that abortion takes the life of an unborn child, and it’s not calling someone a ‘baby killer’, which would be deeply inappropriate and unhelpful.

It’s pretty normal to feel sad about an abortion and to acknowledge that a human life was lost (even if you believe that this was a potential life) or that it was the only feasible “choice” in a particular set of circumstances.

Probably most posters here believe that abortion is a sad but necessary thing.

8 abortions is undoubtedly a tragedy, both for the human lives lost and the woman herself who sounds like she is in urgent need of help. It is shocking and actually there’s nothing wrong with making judgements about situations, especially ones like these.

I don’t think anyone should be looking to normalise or minimise 8 abortions - something is clearly terribly wrong in this poor woman’s life.

The OP is allowed to feel both sadness and anger for her friend’s situation and I am not surprised the woman’s family are upset if they have been falsely led to believe that OP has been somehow complicit in this situation, taking her to the clinic & supporting and encouraging her on 8 occasions! Perhaps they just want to know more about the situation and feel as though they have been excluded when they could have helped?

I agree that some form of text message to the family is acceptable along with strong words with the women about being dragged into her lies. I would be interested to know why she felt the need to do this.

So sorry OP, a horrible situation for you and no need to defend your own views on abortion either. 8 abortions is extremely fucked up!

Typical Mumsnet. A woman has 8 abortions but “that’s her choice”

MrsTerryP I get what you're saying, I think, but if I was having a conversation in which it was obvious that the subjects were human (as in this thread) I wouldn't think twice about using the word 'female' to distinguish from the choices males have available to them (or whatever). Doesn't make me misogynistic or an arsehole. Rather a sweeping (and offensive) statement to make without qualifiers. Which was the case in the relevant posts.

How can you claim to be pro-choice, but then try to impose some kind of limit on how many abortions is a sensible number?

It's her body. Leave her to it.

8 abortions is undoubtedly a tragedy, both for the human lives lost and the woman herself who sounds like she is in urgent need of help. It is shocking and actually there’s nothing wrong with making judgements about situations, especially ones like these.

Get a grip.

Most posters here are shocked by 8 abortions precisely because it’s a highly unusual situation. Everybody makes judgement on situations and draws conclusions on those involved, it’s human nature to do so.

Turning a blind eye while someone engages in a pattern of destructive behaviour (like getting pregnant only to abort 8 times) is not a kind or charitable thing to do.

Loads of women abort even though they would rather not, because they feel it’s the least worst option. These women are understandably fragile & sensitive because they aborted a baby that in different circumstances they would keep.

Would you tell them to get a grip?

Oh I do know really, if you don’t have another adult to navigate the system for you or won’t accept help the results are awful - and the stereotypes about people on benefits don’t help the vulnerable wa t to ge the help they need either.

Agree, a sad and nasty thread.