Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think there should be a strict ban on trans-identified men in women's sport

161 replies

pisacake · 21/12/2017 10:38

We recently had a MAN winning silver medals at the World Weightlifting Championship, at the expense of women.
He could have had gold but appeared to throw the winning lift:

Now we have a journeyman male (194cm tall) volleyball player from Brazil (world's leading volleyball country), who had to go off to random places like Indonesia to find work, walking into the women's Superleague, and outscoring the best female player (and double Olympic champion) on his team 25 points to 9: www.facebook.com/voleibolfemininobauru/photos/a.578277125569830.1073741828.578250175572525/1601320639932135/?type=3&theater

The (male) national team coach says he wants him on the women's team, and he could compete at the 2020 Olympics.

<a class="break-all" href="https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=esportes.estadao.com.br/blogs/bruno-voloch/jose-roberto-guimaraes-admite-convocar-tiffany-para-a-selecao-brasileira/&prev=search" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=esportes.estadao.com.br/blogs/bruno-voloch/jose-roberto-guimaraes-admite-convocar-tiffany-para-a-selecao-brasileira/&prev=search

This is a man who couldn't even get a club place in Brazil (out of 10 teams) as a man, now he is one of the the best 'women' in the country, by reason of his male physique.

AIBU to think this is wrong and transitioning males should be
excluded from women's sport under all circumstances?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
MiMi78 · 21/12/2017 10:42

100% agree.
The MMA trans fighter gives me the rage.

astoundedgoat · 21/12/2017 10:45

100% agree. I realise that this is probably somewhat unfair to the vanishingly small number of genuine transwomen who have been living seamlessly as women for many years and wish to compete, but the current situation is also breathtakingly unfair to our entire sex, and makes a mockery of women's sport.

Men have always dismissed women's sport, and now they have come up with a way to render it completely meaningless.

Original poster
pisacake · 21/12/2017 13:51

'living seamlessly as women for many years and wish to compete'

Well I don't know. My DS is 15 and trains 6 days a week for his sport and he's by no means an elite athlete. I don't think it's possible to be an Olympic calibre athlete just because you fell like it - you have to train at it for years starting as a teenager.

Obviously they might just want to play football on a Sunday, which is a different scenario, but it's still not fair to have what are likely to be 5' 3" women suddenly having a 6' man turn up - it risks broken limbs, and it's just not fair on any level.

Things like (non-competitive) cycling + running and other individual sports would be fine though.

OP posts:
jesstjoking · 21/12/2017 13:55

How is this allowed? Does it happen in the UK? Do sporting bodies make up these rules or is it law? I know some sports are mixed sex anyway (show jumping is the only one I can think of atm but I think there are more) but this makes no sense in sex-segregated sports.

Original poster
pisacake · 21/12/2017 13:59

I think it does happen in the UK, there was a man competing and winning all the female fell races, but when UK Athletics tried to investigate, he tried to murder the investigator.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2877705-Transgender-fell-runner-Lauren-Jeska-sentenced-to-18-years-for-attempted-murder?messages=100&pg=1

He's now in a women's prison.

OP posts:
RestingGrinchFace · 21/12/2017 14:05

Well I think it depends. If they have physically transitioned before puberty set in they their sex won't really be an advantage to them. But in cases where a hulk of a man transitions I think it's quite clear cut. Sports are segregated to give women a fair chance-given thatvthe are physically less able than their male counterparts. This logic doesn't apply to sportsmen who have transitioned.

CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger · 21/12/2017 14:05

Men have always dismissed women's sport, and now they have come up with a way to render it completely meaningless.

^
||
||

This

DoculamentDoculament · 21/12/2017 14:09

I agree. But this thread is repeated about once a week now Smile

SpartonDregs · 21/12/2017 14:11

Men have always dismissed women's sport, and now they have come up with a way to render it completely meaningless.

Indeed they have. How utterly convenient.

Maryz · 21/12/2017 23:55

The IOC says men can take part if they say they are women.

The only restriction is that they should have testosterone levels less than 10 nanomols per litre for the year prior to competition. This is, apparently at the "lower end" of normal for males, and is up to ten times the "normal" level for women.

Generally they also have the advantage of having male skeletons, larger hands and feet, longer limbs, denser muscle mass and male cardiac muscle, the combination of which means that to an onlooker it would appear they have an advantage, regardless of their testosterone level or when they "transitioned".

HouseworkIsAPain · 22/12/2017 00:17

I find it astonishing that males who have laid down denser muscle mass in puberty, have larger skeletons and just generally more strength are allowed to compete in female sports, with testosterone levels that would be seen as astonishing in a female.

What is the point of teenage girls training for a sport? How demoralising to train for years and then realise that no matter how much work they put in, a male can come along and declare themselves to be female and immediately have a competitive advantage over them.

What is the point of female sports if biologically male people are allowed to compete?

Margaritaanyone89 · 22/12/2017 00:31

100% agree. They are physically/biologically at an advantage and it's not fair to make them compete against bio females.

But also as some of them may take female hormones they may also be at a disadvantage against male athletes.

So the solution instead: there could be a transgender category for each sport in which might even encourage more transgender athletes as they won't feel there will be a back lash because they have 'unfair advantages'. I'd be enthusiastic about supporting such a category.

Trueheart1 · 22/12/2017 00:34

In a few years, trans women will hold all the female sports records. What an inventive way of silencing women and their achievements. It is horrific and inevitable.

Copperkettles · 22/12/2017 00:34

100% agree

Original poster
pisacake · 22/12/2017 01:38

So the solution instead: there could be a transgender category for each sport in which might even encourage more transgender athletes as they won't feel there will be a back lash because they have 'unfair advantages'. I'd be enthusiastic about supporting such a category.

It wouldn't be a major category, as they are only 0.1% of the population rather than 50%.

I think you could definitely have it at the Paralympics, but it wouldn't be a thing outside of that.

OP posts:
ThatWasNotLove · 22/12/2017 02:48

Well maybe the Paralympics should be merged with the Olympics.

ThatWasNotLove · 22/12/2017 02:53

Sorry pushed Post by mistake!

There's no way Trans people would agree to being in the paralympics because that labels them as having something different to olympian's in the olympics. The games should be merged anyway, so good time to do it.

But that won't happen.

In a way what needs to happen is for someone really big to get thrown down the leaderboard for this to make people realise. An Olympic level competitor who is a sure-fire for gold not getting it and some newcomer who is biologically male taking it instead. Only then will people realise the seriousness of this.

Which I'm guessing is why that weightlifter threw the results.

genever · 22/12/2017 03:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ofthread · 22/12/2017 03:30

I am very liberal in comparison to many on this board it seems. However, this should be stopped. Women's bones stop growing as soon as menstruation kicks in, so the rule should be, if you haven't ever menstruated, then you aren't eligible to compete with women. This seems draconian, but it's only fair. It's not sportsmanlike otherwise.

FixItUpChappie · 22/12/2017 04:02

100% agree OP. Its mass brainwashing nonsense IMO

Didntcomeheretofuckspiders · 22/12/2017 06:38

Oh this old chestnut again.

treaclesoda · 22/12/2017 06:43

It amazes me that this has ever been allowed to take place. But it amazes me even more that women will roll their eyes and say it's no big deal, or they're tired of the subject etc.

We can't afford to be tired of the subject because once it becomes the norm, it will be too late to change things.

Didntcomeheretofuckspiders · 22/12/2017 06:44

What about athletes who were born intersex? There is to some extent a bit of a range with regards to biological sex, not just gender. It’s entirely possibly to be born with a small bit of Y chromosome for example but for all intents and purposes be female. Many young athletes who compete might not have menstruated anyway... if you body fat percentage is less than around 13%, you don’t create the estrogen necessary. Why does everything have to be so black and white? It’s not like all of a sudden the olympics is going to be full of men in skirts, pretending to be trans.

Soubriquet · 22/12/2017 06:46

It makes me so cross

Because they can't win as a man, they have to be a woman and win in that way.

And of course they will win. They are bigger, stronger and most women don't have a chance.

Women in sport will soon be obsolete

HappenedForAReisling · 22/12/2017 06:49

and it's not fair to make them compete against bio females.

It's not so much "making" them compete against bio females, but allowing them to.