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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think there should be a strict ban on trans-identified men in women's sport

161 replies

pisacake · 21/12/2017 10:38

We recently had a MAN winning silver medals at the World Weightlifting Championship, at the expense of women.
He could have had gold but appeared to throw the winning lift:

Now we have a journeyman male (194cm tall) volleyball player from Brazil (world's leading volleyball country), who had to go off to random places like Indonesia to find work, walking into the women's Superleague, and outscoring the best female player (and double Olympic champion) on his team 25 points to 9: www.facebook.com/voleibolfemininobauru/photos/a.578277125569830.1073741828.578250175572525/1601320639932135/?type=3&theater

The (male) national team coach says he wants him on the women's team, and he could compete at the 2020 Olympics.

<a class="break-all" href="https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=esportes.estadao.com.br/blogs/bruno-voloch/jose-roberto-guimaraes-admite-convocar-tiffany-para-a-selecao-brasileira/&prev=search" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=esportes.estadao.com.br/blogs/bruno-voloch/jose-roberto-guimaraes-admite-convocar-tiffany-para-a-selecao-brasileira/&prev=search

This is a man who couldn't even get a club place in Brazil (out of 10 teams) as a man, now he is one of the the best 'women' in the country, by reason of his male physique.

AIBU to think this is wrong and transitioning males should be
excluded from women's sport under all circumstances?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
KingLooieCatz · 22/12/2017 06:49

Hold on:

Women's bones stop growing as soon as menstruation kicks in

Wouldn't that mean we'd all be the height we were at age 12-ish?

KathyBeale · 22/12/2017 06:50

I think about this quite often because my son is a swimmer. He is only 11 so he hasn’t gone through puberty yet but he is bigger and faster than the girls in his age group. Times are different for the different sexes and they don’t compete in the same races. The physical difference is obvious even though they are young.

SummatFishyEre · 22/12/2017 06:51

show jumping is the only one I can think of atm but I think there are more) but this makes no sense in sex-segregated sports.

Equestrianism is the only sport where men and women compete on a level playing field, probably because much of it is about courage and skill rather than strength or stamina. Transwomen competing against natal women in female categories is wrong.

Didntcomeheretofuckspiders · 22/12/2017 06:54

Could this not easily be solved by saying if you have ever competed at a sport at X level as a male then that is the category you compete in? (A bit like how if you play for Wales, you can’t play for England). Ie. You have to genuinely be a trans person and not just want to win so ‘change gender’. Or do we genuinely just hate trans women?

ferntwist · 22/12/2017 06:54

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

treaclesoda · 22/12/2017 06:55

Wouldn't that mean we'd all be the height we were at age 12-ish?

I think that sounds quite logical. I am the height that I was aged 12, when my periods started. My school friends who were later to develop seemed to keep getting taller over the next couple of years and I'm guessing their periods maybe started a couple of years later? (We never discussed it so I don't know for sure but it seems logical).

Didntcomeheretofuckspiders · 22/12/2017 06:58

Trans rights are not trampling anything ffs.

treaclesoda · 22/12/2017 07:01

Trans rights are not trampling anything ffs.

Apart from women's rights. And children's rights. And science and language. And logic. But apart from those things, I suppose not...

MsGameandWatching · 22/12/2017 07:05

YANBU. It was the IOC decision to allow this that first made me sit up and take notice and start considering how life looks for women when men can just muscle straight into their spaces because they’re women now. It’s terrifying and infuriating at the same time and yet still there are people dismissing it a none issue and/or labelling it as transphobia to be concerned. How dim do you have to be at this point to not see the very real danger that women’s sport will be entirely taken over. This may mean little to you if you hold the childish view “well I hate sport anyway!” but it won’t stop there.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 22/12/2017 07:13

Sorry, posted by accident. So far 190cm, 100kg Mouncey has been kept out of Australian women's football. But it has to be obvious that the inclusion of transwomen in a contact sport would be unfair.

megletthesecond · 22/12/2017 07:14

Yanbu.

UrsulaPandress · 22/12/2017 07:19

It was this very issue that peak transed me.

HamishBamish · 22/12/2017 07:20

YANBU. It’s ridiculous they are allowed to compete in women’s sport. I’m amazed they have he nerve to do it themselves, knowing what an unfair advantage they have.

BertrandRussell · 22/12/2017 07:22

"Trans rights are not trampling anything ffs."

Well, they are when it comes to women's sport! What's your solution to that specific issue?

FlaviaAlbia · 22/12/2017 07:24

YANBU, I'm the same as MsGameandWatching, it was the sheer unfairness of the IOC policy that first made me outraged about this and then made me look into more areas where women will lose out.

There're so many examples and all I can feel is that the athlete cheated a woman out of her rightful win, no matter how sincerely they may feel about being on the right team.

Except for Fallon Fox, that was just sanctioned assault and crossed a line from competing to win into aiming to hurt the opposition as much as possible to me.

ForalltheSaints · 22/12/2017 07:29

Agree, for this and for restrictions on who uses changing rooms.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 22/12/2017 08:05

Sorry to the people bored by this but it's important, women and girls are important, they matter.

There is a huge push against women and girls rights and some of us give a fuck.

Women and girls deserve to compete with their own sex.

They also deserve privacy and dignity and to be able to access accurate crime stats. Male crime should not be reported as female crime. Women deserve to be housed in prisons with other members of their sex.

Sexual violence against girls is up, girls mental health is being ignored.

Why on earth do people choose now to take away the few things that women and girls have? Why "mixed sex everything" now, at the same time as #MeToo?

InTheRoseGarden · 22/12/2017 08:06

YANBU. At some point the rest of the world will wake up to this.

MsGameandWatching · 22/12/2017 08:07

See, I am scared they won’t intherosegarden

TrojanWhore · 22/12/2017 08:10

I am bored that no-one ever gives the answer that if the rules as they currently stand (eg for athletics) which cover all people whose chromosomes do not match a binary sex, how will intersex people ever compete?

What would the new system for them look like? And how will it be future-proofed, given the extent of epigenetics in expression of sex characteristics.

What is the preferred new solution, or at least the most widely backed possible solutions from those who disapprove of the current rules and thresholds?

I don't think it's enough to know I current systems without showing better alternatives.

SpartonDregs · 22/12/2017 08:12

how will intersex people ever compete

How many intersex people actually are there and how many are sportspeople?

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 22/12/2017 08:14

Young women ‘neglected’ by mental health policy as female suicides soar to highest rate ever, damning report finds

See this, this is young women who take their own lives. Not threaten it, not exaggerate it, they take their own lives.

We have got to start standing up for women and girls even if it makes a small group of men and boys sad.

HouseworkIsAPain · 22/12/2017 08:15

I have had an interesting evening reading various threads. Like a PP, the sheer unfairness of this policy has made me look at where women will lose out in other areas. It’s not something I’ve really thought about in depth before, being all liberal and with a let people live philosophy. But not at the expense of women - what even is the point of women having seperate sports, spaces, awards if anyone can go for them?

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 22/12/2017 08:16

fuckspiders what rights did transsexuals not have previously that they are gaining now?

There is no range or variations when it comes to biological sex btw. People are either male or female. There's no in between sex.