to think an equal heterosexual relationship is not possible in a patriarchal society

[PeppersTheCat]

I'm 35. I have a 4 month old baby and a 36 year old partner who belittles me, calls me fat, bosses me about and blackmails me. Due to the way society is, he holds all the power - and he knows it.

He can date women of all ages who won't care that he's a little overweight. His career has been left unscathed by the birth of our baby whereas mine is practically ruined (I was in the middle of a phd and probably won't be able to complete it). If I leave him I'll be left to struggle with a baby on my own on benefits (I dont want to put such a young child in institutional childcare, it would break my heart) and if i want to be treat nicely I need to date men 10+ years older who will feel lucky to have me. I'll spend the rest of my life wondering what i could have done with my phd.

A man wont see a single mother with a baby as an attractive proposition. meanwhile he can get a new woman in weeks. he knows this and thats why he feels nothing about blackmailing me and claiming it is normal.

my choice is be single and lonely, or bow to him.

How do people manage equitable heterosexual relationships when women's careers suffer as a result of childbirth AND women are more valued for their looks/youth than men. Women seems to diminish in value as they age. Men, less so.

With such an unequal power balance, how is love achievable?

Is he your PhD supervisor?

No, your partner is badly behaved and you allow it to happen by assuming there is no other way and tolerating it. I probably don’t have an entirely equal relationship but the balance is probably In my favour. I think most of our friends have fairly equal relationships. It takes compromise, it takes renegotiation as life moves on and circumstances change but as long as you both know you are equal partners it survives and thrives. What it can’t have if it is to aork is a disrespectful and unkind partner.

my choice is be single and lonely, or bow to him.

I know which I'd choose.

What utter rubbish! I have been with my husband 17 years, we have one DD, both work full time. I have a career with regular progression and a significantly higher salary, he has a job that he mostly enjoys on a fairly low salary.

We share childcare responsibilities equally as we do household chores.

We respect each other and would never belittle or demean each other.

The fact that you have married an arse and seem to have truly low expectations for yourself and your relationships is something you need to work on.

An awful, abusive relationship is not representative of all relationships.

It is an interesting argument to have and one I have been thinking about myself - as I picked up my child from nursery after working a full day, made us both dinner, put him to bed, did some housework ... all while my DP stays late at work. An option that somehow doesn’t seem available to me.
But there’s a difference between that, and pondering why it is that for all my friends as well the majority of childcare falls to them (NOT all of them, so it can be done) and the state of your relationship. I don’t think that has anything to do with society or feminism, it just sounds like your “D”P is a dick.

It sounds to me (sorry to be blunt) that you are making excuses for not doing the right thing for you.

LTB.

Ignore society’s issue with childcare and get your PHD finished.

Get some therapy and work ou why you are attracted to the wrong men.

Getting a Doctorate doesn't mean anything if you cannot sort out or understand the dynamics of what is going on in your life.

Would that be fair to say? Apologies if not.

OP, until you fix the massive self-esteem problems that you have (which are obvious just from reading your posts) you will sadly keep attracting the kind of men you have been and are with.

My DH and I are equal. In fact he does more at home than I do. I have the power to leave because I am financially independent, intelligent and have worked on building my career. He is a good man who would never swear at me or belittle me... not because "I have power to leave him", but because good people simply do not do this. Your relationship is toxic and abnormal. Many men and women do not treat their partners the way your H treats you. You have normalised an attitude that is completely unacceptable, and unfortunately your children will already have internalised some of your and your H's behaviour as normal in their brain. Please leave this arsehole you are with and give your children the chance to learn self-esteem and a healthy relationship between partners so they don't repeat your mistakes.

And after leaving, remain single until you have worked on yourself. Until you appreciate and value yourself you will be a terrible judge of character and will keep falling back with abusers and nasty men.

If not for yourself, please do it for your children.

Good luck!

Why doesn't a PhD mean anything unless you can sort out the rest of your life? It's a qualification. Means a hell of a lot.

It's like saying getting a driving licence doesn't mean anything. Or grade 8 on the violin. Got bugger-all to do with self-knowledge. Still well worth doing if that's your goal.

Sorry to hear you're in such a difficult position op. Not easy to leave with a tiny baby, but can you plan to leave and thereby take some power back? See friends, get through those very early months, line up work and childcare, then ltb.

Op your other half sounds unpleasant but he does not hold all of the power unless you allow him to.

If you have respect for yourself and for each other you’ll find that relationships can be equal, and that doesn’t mean earning exactly the same amount or splitting childcare exactly 50:50 but that you are both happy with your relationship and what you both put in to it.

Decant men are NOT repelled by women who have children

"Repelled" is one thing, but there's nothing wrong with not wanting a relationship with someone who has children. I don't want to bring up children as a parent or step-parent. Therefore I wouldn't start a relationship with anyone who had children. I think decent people would only become part of a blended family if they were certain it was what they wanted. Otherwise it's not fair on the child.

I think the OP has had an unfair hammering. The way I read her posts is that she’s lost hope; not that she is blaming feminism. She just wishes that life for women were better than it is and that the odds were not stacked in favour of the patriarchy.

I don’t think this is controversial.

ohreally Yes, really! and Pumper It's not nonsense.

I get that some men can walk away and not pay anything but I couldn't behave like that. And even if I did catch a bad dose of total bastard, I have a regular job (not cash economy or self employed) and DW has full knowledge of our finances, access to our savings and a pretty compelling story about having put her career on hold to support mine. Any halfway competent lawyer would be able to secure a decent settlement for her and enforce it.

I don't think there are any perfect solutions if you want to have children but some people seem to put themselves in positions that leave them unnecessarily vulnerable if their spouse turns out to be an arse. That's nothing to do with the patriarchy.

some people seem to put themselves in positions that leave them unnecessarily vulnerable if their spouse turns out to be an arse. That's nothing to do with the patriarchy.

Nice bit of victim blaming there.

How the fuck are they supposed to know their spouse might turn out to be an arse?

Your partner is terrible and abusive and you should leave him! This is NOT how a relationship should be and your blaming this on society is almost like defending him - like implying that your situation is normal, or that all men are the same. Its not and they aren't! In my relationship I feel loved and secure, and we are equals. I don't feel at all like my partner has the power! However, I have felt this way in the past with other relationships and now I know that this was because they were the wrong people/not very nice people. In general, in relationships, I don't think men hold power over women! They shouldn't, anyway. Your belief that this is normal, that you have to stay with your partner, and that if you dont he will be happy and you will be miserable, sounds to me like he has knocked your confidence so much that you belief this! Please dont believe such nonsense and please leave him, if anything for the sake of your baby, who doesn't deserve to grow up with an abusive father controlling and manipulating and bullying his mother and chipping away at her confidence. That will be SO damaging for your child to witness. Leave him, be strong, for yourself and your baby.

This is about you and your relationship Peppers, not society. You have made the fallacy of insufficient sample.

Society is perfectly fair (in fact favours us in many ways) as is my relationship.

"How is love achievable"? Easily. The premise you made is false.

I also can't believe you are studying a PhD with the failures in basic grammar in your post.

How are you paying your husband when your career is in tatters? I suspect you're confused as to what 'blackmail' means.

I have been reflecting on this.
When I was still with xH, I went through a phase of thinking sex-roles were unfair and that was how the world was, and it would be better if I just tried to do my best with that.

But abuse and inequality are not the same thing, although you could argue that domestic abuse (mostly against women) only thrives in a society which sees women as unequal.

And it is here there lies the rub. Because most people, young women included, assume women are equal, and expect to be treated as such. So you have a double bind of thinking there is equality (there is not) and a spouse who exploits the actual inequality by abusing you (everyone will say if he is that bad, you should just leave, you have got equality, right?)

Abuse of women only thrives in a society which does not afford women the same autonomy, independence and financial reward as men, particularly once they have children. It thrives because women go into relationships thinking they are on an unequal footing, and are then somewhere down the line wrong-footed as the control starts.

As for not making yourself vulnerable, women are by nature vulnerable. They are vulnerable when they fall asleep next to a man. They are vulnerable when they are pregnant and with a newborn. They are vulnerable because they think they will get respect, equality and a fair deal in marriage. Many men do not exploit these vulnerabilities, they treat their wives as equal human beings. Other men do not.

As otter says, they don’t come with a label on. The most charming, well-educated man can be abusive. And society affords him the benefit of the doubt.

I am not saying women cannot behave badly, but the structural sexual inequalities which women face mean that they are more often and more likely to be the victims of abuse rather than the perpetrators.

Women go into relationships thinking they are on an equal footing, that should read, sorry

They are vulnerable because they think they will get respect, equality and a fair deal in marriage. Many men do not exploit these vulnerabilities, they treat their wives as equal human beings. Other men do not.
YY to that.

But I will add to that that a patriarcal society makes it normal for men and women to treat women with disprespect/not as equal.
Even when these men are ‘good men’, it will look normal to them that most of the childcare is done by the woman, that most of the hw is done by women. Regardless of whether the woman is actually working just as many hours as them etc....

Ime, having a baby is what is tipping the scale. Before that, things can be relatively equal. The woman is free to leave after all.
As soon as a baby arrives, it puts the woman in a more vulnerable position which allows the more ‘traditional’ set up where women aren’t as respected as men.
And as soon as one is t as respected/respectable, it opens the door wide open to abuse.
Some men will stop at the level of childcare and HW is women’s work, other will go further into full in abuse. But IMO they are just at a different levels in the scale of disrespect.

some people seem to put themselves in positions that leave them unnecessarily vulnerable if their spouse turns out to be an arse.
Do you mean that women should only have children with men who have a regular job like you? So that there is no escape from paying maintenance.
Abusibe men often only start looking arse AFTER the woman has for pregnant. Before they are all nice and sweet. They often actually look like really great men from the outside. It’s not as simple as ‘not putting yourself in a vulnerable position’.
That’s wo talking about the point Iced made Which would then mean that, basically, women should never settle or have children with any man ever if we were following your advice....

Hermione

Do you mean that women should only have children with men who have a regular job like you? So that there is no escape from paying maintenance

No, that's not what I meant. I was responding to two posters who said that I could just walk out on my family and not pay maintenance. I acknowledged that some men could do that, but explained that due to our circumstances (of which a regular job is one element) I would be tracked down pretty quickly if I were nasty enough to try.

Seadragon which is right and proper, I think.

However, even basic maintenance does not come close to the financial, professional and emotional costs of bringing up children on your own.

To be clear, i don’t think you are the person negative comments are aimed at. You sound like you would try to do the right thing. But the point is, how does anyone know, before they find themselves at that point, what their partner will do? I am not distrusting you, I am sure your wife has no reason to distrust you, but you cannot speak for all men and whatever you personally would do, the social apparatus means it is actually almost always the mother who ends up financially worse off in a split. It is almost always the mother who is worse off by having children.

And yet that is not how we, as women, are taught to measure worth or are measured. We are measured by how good a mother we are; a good mother is selfless, loving, caring, nurturing, not materialistic or self-centred, always puts her children first. The idea of the good mother is another way society controls women, and it underpins all the smaller inequalities as well as the abuse people are discussing.

Does a good mother risk poverty to remove her children from abuse?
Does a good mother stay so that her children are not sent for contact while she is not there?
Does a good mother go out to work to provide for her children? And if she does, what does her home look like? Are her children’s clothes clean? Does she make sure her children have nutritious meals too?

Think about the many ways in which mothering can be called into question. If you pay maintenance, you count as a good dad. If you see your children EOW, have a medal. But that is the bare minimum of parenting.

I understand that lots of men do more, fight for more, that society is not fair for men either, but the argument doesn’t stop because you would do the right thing.