To be shocked by the young woman killed by her own pit bull dogs in the USA?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

I have just seen this, and find it really shocking. Is it not extremely unusual for well-loved dogs to turn on their owner?

It seems different from the awful stories where a dog savages a child in a family. The reports are that this woman had her dogs since puppyhood, and friends said they were very affectionate - surely that's not a sign of an insecure or fearful dog who snaps and mauls somebody?

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks when it comes to dogs on Mumsnet, what do you think - is this just a very rare incident? Or what is the most likely reason?

I love dogs, I found this pretty shocking and very sad.

Yeah that is total bullshit i'm afraid. Look at military or police trained attack dogs. Most of them will have attacked a human many times in their careers yet a large number of them are rehomed upon retirement. If it was the case of once bitten = more dangerous then there would be no way in hell these dogs would be (successfully) rehomed.

Everybody attributes human characteristics to their pets, it's nothing unusual. The problem comes when people physically treat their dogs as human. All of my dogs have been given 'human' nicknames or characteristics when i describe them, but none of them have ever been problems, at home or in public. That's the difference between a responsible owner & an irresponsible one i think; talking about your dog is completely different to how you allow it to act. I get called a lot because my dogs all had access to the sofa, my bed...have only ever had one issue of dominance in over 50 dogs. Because they all know still had boundaries even whilst getting luxury.

My rommie boy was widely known in the rescue world as either 'little arsehole' or 'f*king b*tard' because he was 😂 He took a lot of work to get him settled & I had to be super vigilant on lead...attributing the very human characteristics didn't change the fact he was under control. Just made me feel better for a good old rant 😂😂

I agree that the sheriff's views about dogs that have 'tasted human flesh' are likely rubbish - it's a very old-school myth.

Having said that though, I do think these dogs would be difficult to rehab without knowing what triggered the attack, and whether it was one dog or both. etc. Also, they are sending the dogs for necropsy/toxicology reports, so I imagine there is useful evidence to be gained from doing so. I can't imagine they'd be easy to rehome either.

The information about how they were neglected just before the incident seems key to me, and it also remains true that pit bulls are hugely over-represented in the stats for fatal attacks. Sad, but true.

I remember reading a story of a family, the dog bit the child on the arm, the family where horrified by it and had the dog put down, turns out the child had jammed a crayon in the dogs ear

A qualified behaviourist would be able to assess these dogs (individually) & suggest whether they were a long term threat. Even fighting dogs can be rehab'd if done properly. These won't be tho because they will want to know for sure if they killed her - i did read that they didn't have blood on their muzzles when found but god knows the truth.

The problem still remains - in the UK at least - that 'pit bulls' as a true breed very rarely exist. This statistic for 'pit bull' attacks actually compromises of 'type' dogs, many of whom are in fact staff crosses or similar. You only have to look at the likes of DDA Watch & look at the photos of the seized dogs to realise that even some stocky lab crosses are potentially at risk

Adrian i remember that story.

It worries (and saddens) me that people will still a) leave their kids unsupervised with a dog and b) allow their kids to crawl over/climb on/push around their dog. The ultimate loser is always the dog; they can't call out that DD is chewing their ear, or poking them in the eye etc. A growl and/or a warning snap is all they have & if it's ignored their teeth is the final solution. Also baffles me why people tell their dogs off for growling a warning when they are unhappy. A dog who doesn't warn first is without doubt a very dangerous dog

mustbemad17

i did read that they didn't have blood on their muzzles when found but god knows the truth.

If you go through to the lik I posted on the previous page and then scroll down to the bottom of the newspage, you can watch the full press conference (about 15 minutes long) with the people who found her and are dealing with the incident.

They confirm that a) the dogs were eating her ribcage when they arrived on the scene and b) that the dogs had blood on their muzzles, throats, and in the collar area. As they would have!

Ah i missed that dot (still waiting for my phone to catch up with the link). Absolutely if they did attack her they'd be covered in her blood!

Overall it's a really sad story

You never really know how someone treats their dogs behind closed doors, it often comes out that other family members have abused/neglected the dog in cases like this. No one will obviously own up to it though.

I'm not a fan of the comments in this thread which say stuff like "don't let the dog be the boss". I often hear this phrase a lot from people who abuse their dog and take pleasure out of feeling like a boss and hurting it.

Every living thing is capable of hurting other living things. Just show it compassion, teach it how to behave and you shouldn't have a problem.

Humans are the dangerous animals in our society.

It can happen. I remember hen I was about 6, I was playing in the garden with my dog and she dropped her ball and turned around so she wasn't facing me (someone walked past and she was being nosey) I threw the ball for her and the next thing I remember I was on the floor with her on top of me. Luckily my dad was in the garden with me and had managed to get her off before she had the chance to bite me x

Pit bulls are fighting dogs and like similar breeds have a short fuse and wide, powerful jaws that lock onto their prey. There have been numerous instances where pit bulls have inexplicably and without apparent provocation turned on their owners or members of the public, which is why they are banned in the UK, along with 5 other breeds under the Dangerous Dogs Act. Other breeds can of course bite and terriers, despite being miniatures, are less trustworthy than some other, larger breeds. However, they tend to bite once and then let go, having made their point. The fighting breeds, by contrast, persist in their attack. This is what makes them so dangerous. Gun dogs, ie spaniels and labs etc are pretty bomb proof, as are sighthounds, but standard advice is not to allow dogs to sleep on your bed and never leave dogs with children unsupervised. Most dog attacks are upon children and it is important to recognise the vulnerability of children vis—a—vis dogs. Fighting dogs are particularly unsuitable as family dogs.

I'd disagree that labs are bomb proof. Or spaniels! The stats suggest otherwise too given labs are top for 'dog attacks' (hate that phrase).

My dogs always come on the bed. Never had an aggression issue out of them. Any 'trainer' who suggests a dog's bad behaviour is down to being allowed on the bed probably trades in dominance theory. Which is crap

I don't own dogs myself, as my lifestyle means it wouldn't be fair on them, but I've had an awful lot to do with dogs all my life - anything from miniature breeds to GSDs & Dobermans, pets through Crufts winners to Sieger winners (GSD training including guard dog type work).

The 3 worst injuries from dog bites, in fact the only times the dog was "serious" rather than play biting which didn't hurt at all, was from a Yorkie terrier, a JRT and a Chihuahua. On Monday I was playing with 3 fully trained Sieger GSDs, (one did head butt me when she tried to lick my face which hurt!), tomorrow I will be fussing a large doberman. Next week I'm visiting a pack of miniature poodles and getting bounced on by about 4 at a time.

The one thing that all the large dogs I have known have in common is that they have been trained well, and despite being traditionally "guard" breeds are impeccably behaved (same goes for the rottweilers I have known). I would if necessary be able to remove food from any of them (not that I would try unless necessary) and have had to a couple of times in the past with the GSD owner's previous dogs.

I get the feeling that the reason the "Bully" breeds are often offenders when it comes to biting is that many of the people who get the breeds are attracted to them specifically because of the "bad boy" image those breeds have, and train/treat them accordingly to suit the macho image they want to portray - sort of like a penis-extension. A dog who has been brought up and trained to fight will tend to fight, the identical dog brought up differently is very unlikely to whatever the breeding.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/cat-murder-woman-stray-attempt-prime-suspect-japan-a8053331.html

For those that think cats aren't in the same league..

Oh cats can cause some pretty bad damage, but don't tend to attack people unless they feel threatened e.g. trapped, or someone reaching a hand out to them. They are much more likely to run away - not stupid cats, they know that you're much bigger than them!

Allergic i am actually envious right now!! I find bigger dogs a lot more predictable than smaller dogs. I'd personally much rather be sizing up a GSD than a chi or a jack...I still cringe if a JRT goes near my legs 😬

Cats are bloody vicious bastards. We used to live next door to two burmese (i think) cats that would lie in wait on the 6ft fence. Any dog that came past - didn't matter what size - they would tag team & attack it from a height. I watched GSDs, rotties, mastiffs all cower walking past that garden 😂 The only dog i ever saw fight back was a JRT but he lost big time

OK Must, just to make you more jealous - apart from the 3 adult GSDs I also played with the pair of 16 week old puppies who have just come over from Germany. Tomorrow's Dobie is enormous, possibly the tallest I've met, and he will probably beat me to death with his tail once I manage to stop him jumping on me .

Not ALL cats are evil - mine are indoor only, terrified of everyone & everything except for me, and hide in the wardrobe if I have anyone else in the house. Only scratches I've ever had were when I've picked one up & they've taken fright & caught me with a claw as they've jumped off me. They lie on their backs & dribble gently when i tickle their tummies [LOVE]

Please take me with you 😍😍 I love Dobies especially, we used to have two that lived at the end of our road. They were amazing but they used to fence hop to chase cats up the trees!

Okay, not all cats. But most do have a sadistic streak!

" Pit bulls are fighting dogs and like similar breeds have a short fuse and wide, powerful jaws that lock onto their prey "

Not true.

Tragic but, sadly, not shocked.

I think that this may be a mistake. They found the dogs guarding her dead body after they escaped from their pen. I think that she may have been attacked by a wild animal. Many municipalities would go to great lengths to ignore this. Bear attacks are common but they say "it was trying to get the sandwich. The man was silly for holding it as he got into his car with his lunch bag."

It's not a common thing for killer dogs to also guard their victim. This breed was overbred by inner city people and puppy farms. It was bred specifically to be evil.

Apparently when the police got there one of the dogs was eating her ribcage.

So...

Specialists/forensics also ruled out any large animals and confirmed that the wounds were consistent with the size and type of dogs

It's not a common thing for killer dogs to also guard their victim

It's not uncommon for animals to guard their kill, to prevent it being taken by some other animals.

This breed was overbred by inner city people and puppy farms. It was bred specifically to be evil

Evil is a human concept, animals can't really be "evil" as such. Yes some pitbull breeders do try to breed for more aggressive traits, but only towards other dogs - most fighting dogs are fine with people. They will also be very careful on how they breed their dogs, as overbreeding can lead to weaknesses in dogs which is the last thing they will want in their valuable fighting dogs; note I don't in any way condone dog fighting, but it's just common sense by the breeders to get it right.

But also that's some pitbulls, not all by any means, and upbringing is just as important to how a dog turns out. As a pp said, many dogs that were actually fought have been retrained to make good family pets.

I suspect the sheriff's comments were probably based on the severity of this particular attack, which clearly went way behind a couple of dog bites. It would be hard to argue against putting these dogs to sleep, surely.

wtvr.com/2017/12/19/longtime-trainer-stunned-over-grisly-dog-mauling-they-were-very-passive-dogs/

They found the dogs guarding her dead body
are you trying to argue that they were protecting her?
They found the dogs eating her rib cage, or is that how dogs express love for their owners?

I was listening to the archers today and there was something about dogs where Jennifer said that dogs were not pets but working animals. Totally agree