To be shocked by the young woman killed by her own pit bull dogs in the USA?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

I have just seen this, and find it really shocking. Is it not extremely unusual for well-loved dogs to turn on their owner?

It seems different from the awful stories where a dog savages a child in a family. The reports are that this woman had her dogs since puppyhood, and friends said they were very affectionate - surely that's not a sign of an insecure or fearful dog who snaps and mauls somebody?

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks when it comes to dogs on Mumsnet, what do you think - is this just a very rare incident? Or what is the most likely reason?

I love dogs, I found this pretty shocking and very sad.

are you saying that we ought only to have dogs if they can perform a role as working animals?
For the majority of dog owners they are pets, companion animals, people have them because they enjoy having dogs, and they enjoy the emotional bond that they feel with the dog.
There is very little call for dogs as working animals..depending on your definition of work of course

I think dogs are not meant to be pets

not meant to be pets, that doesnt make any sense at all
meant by whom?
Who was it that intended dogs to have a specific purpose, how do you know what the 'purpose' of dogs is?
what about hedgehogs...what is the purpose of hedgehogs please?

Some breeds were specifically bred to be pets and have no function as a working dog e.g Italian Greyhound, Bichon Frise, Maltese and various 'toy breeds'. We created them to be that way.

Some working breeds aren't suitable for life as a typical family pet e.g the Husky or Collie, most adapt fairly easily so long as they are given the right exercise.

I have an extremely well trained, loving and soppy flat coated retriever. She wouldn’t hurt a fly. Or would she ......???
A few years ago she took a major dislike to a workman who regularly visited our house to work. I took a dislike to him as he became over familiar and made me nervous. She obviously picked up on this and repeatedly bared her teeth at him. Which was very unlike her. In the end I had stop him working for us as I thought she might attack him. So whilst she is an excellent judge of character it shows she is capable of aggression. Never ever trust a dog 100%

I'm not surprised by this at all. My sister had a cute, affectionate good natured dog, that suddenly turned one day. Caused massive injury that required surgery, and was lucky there was somebody there to pull the dog away, as it was so out of control.

Well, the latest press conference as some touched on, reveal a very different picture of that of a devoted dog lover. Those pictures of this woman doting on them and all the other sentimental schmaltz her friends and family came out with differ quite a lot from the emerging truth. These once apparently cherished indoor dogs were kept outside in a kennel, even though it is bitterly cold. Perhaps they outlived their social media appeal and were no longer a great Insta prop! They had minimal human contact and were often hungry. This must be confusing for any dog to go from pampered pet to being basically shunned. The woman had moved out and left her dogs behind with her father. Whatever the circumstances, they clearly not the treasured wonderful and adoring pets the father made out. I’m not sure it even is should be a debate of breed specific traits or if all dogs can be killers. You neglect a powerful pair of dogs, fail to socialise and provide basic care such as adequate food, their behaviour may no longer be predictable. It seriously enrages me that anyone would stick a dog in a kennel, worse if they were previously indoor dogs. I don’t wish such a horrific fate on anyone. But I cannot muster up that much of shock when people apparently become neglectful to animals. I am just glad no innocent bystanders, especially kids were hurt.

I’m not sure it even is should be a debate of breed specific traits or if all dogs can be killers

I don't understand the reluctance on this thread to hone in on the fact that it is nearly always Pit Bulls involved in these types of attacks. There are several ways to look at the statistics. Here is one:

"Pit bulls killed 33 of the 45 people in the USA and Canada who died after being attacked by a dog in 2015." (Record 33 fatal pit bull attacks & 459 disfigurements in 2015, at www.animals24-7.org/2016/01/04/record-33-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-459-disfigurements-in-2015/)

Here is another:

"Fatal and disfiguring attacks by pit bulls have risen 830% since 2007." (Record 33 fatal pit bull attacks & 459 disfigurements in 2015, at www.animals24-7.org/2016/01/04/record-33-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-459-disfigurements-in-2015/)

And another:

"According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question." (Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to November 13, 2006, dogbitelaw.com/images/pdf/Dog_Attacks_1982-2006_Clifton.pdf

This link lists all fatal dog attacks in the US, with the breed of the dog, age of victim, whether it was a single dog or multiple dog, etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States It's impossible to scroll through this list without seeing that pit bulls are a problem, especially a group of pit bulls.

I'm not shocked. Dog attacks on humans happen periodically. Seemingly friendly and trustworthy dogs, just like seemingly friendly and trustworthy people, can turn against you in an instant.

Just a few hours ago there are reports of another woman being killed by a dog, this time a worker at an animal control / kennels in Phoenix.

I don't single out the particular breed, but I do note that in the Virginia case the woman is reported as "petite" and weighing 7 stone, the same as each of her two dogs. She wouldn't have been able to defend herself.

PS: "Pit bull" in US usage is a very broad class of dogs, referring to any of several different breeds as well as mixes. Add in potential misidentification and bias - the reputation of "pit bull" encouraging people to identify killer dogs as such - and I don't think you can draw any reliable conclusions from that Wikipedia list.

Mmm, I think some of the responses here are very extreme for what is an extremely rare event. I'm not a dog owner, but there are more dogs than people in my building and I am sure that that is true for most of the world, yet these events are thankfully rare. Nobody in my building has ever been bitten by one of the dogs.

As for cats, I had cats when my dd was a baby and they were very protective of her and never, ever scratched or hurt her. I find most animals, like us, are gentle with babies. People shouldn't be foolish but we shouldn't exaggerate either.

There is something VERY off about this story. The way the dogs were guarding her, waiting protectively beside her body when she was found, the fact that her friends and family are positive this wouldn't have happened, the fact that their cage was broken open as though they had forced their way out to go and help her. I would be extremely surprised if it turns out to have been her dogs. It sounds to be like they tried to help her, were too late, and couldn't bear to leave her. I pray that they fully investigate before euthanising these dogs 😢

Also contrary to popular belief, Pittbulls are very loving pets. Do some research and don't believe everything you read in the Daily Mail 🙄

Lucy - I don't think its that unusual for the dog to stay behind after attacking someone.
The incident where the French woman who had her face torn off by her dog, her dog stayed come to her afterwards.

Its not just the daily mail reporting dog attacks, you just need to google pit bull attacks (or even dog attacks) to see for yourself how dangerous they are.

I think as a parent you want to minimise risks for your children; dogs are animals and have the capacity to serious injure or kill a child. Personally that is far too much of a risk for me to take.

her dog stayed come to her afterwards = the dog stayed with her afterwards.

It isn't pitbulls that are in the problem in the UK though, there are hardly any true pits in England (I've met 3 true exempted pitbulls in my time working with dogs- 2 of which killed eachother at home for no reason after living together for a years )

Most of the dogs involved in dog on dog and human bites are Staffordshire bull crosses, IMO bsl has focused on the wrong breeds alltogether but I certainly wouldn't want to meet lots of the dogs on the list while walking my own.

They will never get rid of it and for good reason, the dogs on it are too powerful and are not bred to be pets.

Lucylululu The police reported that the dogs were eating the woman when they found her body and that there were no signs of human foul play. She also had injuries which suggested she had tried to fight the dogs off.
Guarding in this sense is less greyfriars Bobby and more possession over their kill. She and the dogs were a mile from home, she was walking them. Ths isn't the dogs breaking out to try to protect her. A woman had died a horrible death, it's really not about trying to defend the dogs.

The dogs have already been put down ad far as reports indicate.

Poor lady. Knowing your end was being brought about by the pets you have loved and cared for.

I am sure Pitbulls can be a loving pet. I'm also sure like all dogs they can turn for any reason. The consequences will be much worse than with a pug or a sausage dog or a cat which is why I would always be wary around dogs like that.

There is something VERY off about this story. The way the dogs were guarding her, waiting protectively beside her body when she was found

They were eating her ribcage when the police found them.

With regards to the dogs eating her body, this happens when an owner dies and the dog gets stressed and starts nipping to get a response from the owner. Once the taste of blood gets in their mouths it's hard for them to stop eating, but dogs generally don't plot to kill and eat their owners.

Dogs can turn for so many reasons, some of which we probably don't even pick up on. It could have been in pain or scared of something etc.

All dogs are able to turn, but it is rarely for no reason.

there are more dogs than people in my building and I am sure that that is true for most of the world
There are nine apartments in my building I think about 20 people, no dogs whatsoever,
I've never lived in an area where there are more dogs than people
Thank goodness, all that Barking!

With regards to the dogs eating her body, this happens when an owner dies and the dog gets stressed and starts nipping to get a response from the owner. Once the taste of blood gets in their mouths it's hard for them to stop eating, but dogs generally don't plot to kill and eat their owners

You are trying to portray the dogs as loving companions who accidentally got a taste of blood and then just couldn't help themselves.
They were two predators she was a smaller weaker female animal they overpowered killed her and ate her.

Obviously dogs don't plot because they don't have it the cognitive capacity to do things like plotting
Duh

Some of the answers will be found when they autopsy the digs and find parts of the owner in their stomachs. So the dogs had gone through a number of changes in their living habits, were underfed and under exercised. I don’t understand the surprise and confusion by some posters.

There is something VERY off about this story. The way the dogs were guarding her, waiting protectively beside her body when she was found, the fact that her friends and family are positive this wouldn't have happened, the fact that their cage was broken open as though they had forced their way out to go and help her. I would be extremely surprised if it turns out to have been her dogs. It sounds to be like they tried to help her, were too late, and couldn't bear to leave her. I pray that they fully investigate before euthanising these dogs.

I am 100% a dog person, but I still find it quite gobsmacking that there are still people defending these dogs despite the detail released by the police. Thank heaven that sense has been shown and they have already been put to sleep, before some bleeding heart got them rehomed and the wait for another serious attack to happen began ... is this the canine equivalent of (sorry, horrible derogatory phrase when applied to humans, but) 'cool wife'?

Guarding in this sense is less greyfriars Bobby and more possession over their kill.

Absolutely!

Sorry to the 'deed not breed' people, but whilst I fully accept that breeds bred to fight had, by necessity, to be good with human handlers historically I still firmly believe that there is no place in modern society for dogs that are simply unstoppable when they do turn, particularly when owned by idiots and usually not trained and exercised appropriately.