To be shocked by the young woman killed by her own pit bull dogs in the USA?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

I have just seen this, and find it really shocking. Is it not extremely unusual for well-loved dogs to turn on their owner?

It seems different from the awful stories where a dog savages a child in a family. The reports are that this woman had her dogs since puppyhood, and friends said they were very affectionate - surely that's not a sign of an insecure or fearful dog who snaps and mauls somebody?

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks when it comes to dogs on Mumsnet, what do you think - is this just a very rare incident? Or what is the most likely reason?

I love dogs, I found this pretty shocking and very sad.

Ohfortuna, give it a google, dogs normally eat corpses if their owners die only after waiting and getting stressed so nipping.

Cats eat their owner's bodies asap just for banter.

Yes I know that dogs and cats will eat the Corpse of the owner if the owner dies but in this instance the dogs killed the owner and then ate her

This is why I'm so concerned about my mum's dogs being around my 14mo son

I love dogs, I really do. But my mum has two Staffies who, although very affectionate, are quite badly behaved (they jump all over you as soon as you come into the house in an almost hysterical way - the younger one once jumped up on me and his teeth smacked into my teeth! And one time they knocked over my dad when he came to visit - he's over 6ft tall). My mum dotes on them and wants my son to meet them. I've always refused until now to the point of having a huge row (because I took my son round there for her to babysit one day and she hadn't sent the dogs away to my brother's house as she had promised). I refused to leave DS there and left the house. I felt like I had to do it to make a point.

They're just so strong - even if they didn't attack him they could knock him over or hurt him in some other way. One of them has growled at children before too.

To make matters worse my brother got a Rottweiler about a year ago, and he's also been in a bit of a strop because I won't let the dog meet DS. Again, it's a nice dog but I just don't feel comfortable with it.

I know I'm hijacking the thread slightly but if anyone has an advice on what I should do here without causing a family feud I'd love to hear it.

is this the canine equivalent of (sorry, horrible derogatory phrase when applied to humans, but) 'cool wife'?
I'm not sure but it seems to me that dog owners often feel speak and act as if their dogs have Minds which are a simplified version of human Minds, that the dog has thoughts feelings and intentions which correspond to those of humans
Of course we can never really know 'what is it like to be a bat'/ dog /cat/ elephant but I think it is safe to say that thinking anthropomorphically about dogs leads us to have very mistaken beliefs about them

@Fart, don't worry about causing a family feud the likelihood is that your mother will never listen to reason she's blinded by her love for dogs she will never see your point of view
just put your safety and the safety of your children first and foremost
don't take any chances

@Nancy this woman had bite marks and scratches up her arms where she had tried to defend herself against the dogs.

ALL evidence points to them attacking her.

Like other posters have already pointed out these dogs had gone from being doted on house pets to being kept outside all the time, not fed every day and not seeing their owner every day.

It's not difficult to imagine that this caused a lot of stress and overexcitement which sadly led them to behave out of character and attack.

Possibly they started fighting over something or between themselves and she tried to break it up?
Possibly for some reason one of them just flipped.

We'll never know. But we do know what the evidence points to and that is that the dogs attacked and killed her

Fartness, you are doing the right thing to keep your child safe, even if though it causes a row. Your child’s safety is more important,

Your mother had shown she doesn’t have good judgment, doesn’t respect your wishes, and doesn’t see the inherent danger in big dogs jumping around.

@Fart, it must be extremely upsetting and distressing for you however in my opinion it's possible that your mum and your brother are not being malicious they just honestly cannot see that their beloved furbabies could hurt anyone
They may genuinely believe that their dogs love and respect the human family members in the same way that the human family members love the dogs.
They view these dogs as their babies who have equal status to human children and they want their babies to play with your baby
I know it's fucking ridiculous🙄

@Nancy91 😂

My cats probably wouldn't wait for me to get cold before they started to knaw on me, the utter ducks that they are.

It's pit bulls. People will defend this breed but it's almost always these ones who turn. I refused to visit a friends home who had a pit bull. I May sound precious until it did turn on them. The pet who they had from a pup and they were so certain he wouldn't hurt anyone. Thankfully it happened with many people around who were able to intervene.

They view these dogs as their babies who have equal status to human children and they want their babies to play with your baby

This is exactly the problem I think

Thanks everyone who commented, you've made me feel a bit more confident about seriously limiting any contact.

Sanshin, they are undoubtedly tricky little buggers - ours was a year before he was housetrained. He's definitely not stupid though, and is now pretty well trained which has taken massive amounts of perseverance and also some help from my SIL who is a dog trainer (gun dogs) as someone who has always had working breeds the frenchies do seem virtually untrainable in comparison 😂 that said ours is a wonderful wee guy and suits us perfectly.

There's no doubt in my mind that any dog has the potential to be aggressive, but those with strong prey drive even more so (fighting breeds, terriers) I think part of the problem with labs is that people expect too much of them and let kids etc climb all over them which is massively unfair.

I would never say that I would 100% trust our dog not to bite / snap but I think the difference is that he is very unlikely to cause significant damage if he did.

What Whitney said, 100%.

WRT the guarding I think it’s actually very rare for a dog that hasn’t been specifically trained in protection.

We often hear people say “My dog won’t let anyone near me/my dog barks at people on walks” and they almost always attribute it to protecting them. It’s far far more likely that the dog is trying to protect itself or that it is resource guarding.

If these dogs were trying to prevent anyone from approaching, unfortunately I’d bet my house that rather than protecting their beloved owner they were guarding their meal 😟

@Fart, I would go so far as to say that many dog owners view their fur babies as better than human children, for them the dog provides unconditional love and affection whilst making none of the demands of a human child.
Relationships with other humans are far more complex and challenging, whereas the dog will give you what you want as long as you meet very basic and simple needs.
You don't have to worry about what the dog is really thinking, is it cheating on you plotting against you trying to game you, it does not have the Intelligence or cognitive capacity to be mendacious or dishonest, it will not criticise or challenge you, you are always right.

I found this thread immediately after seeing on Instagram that a celebrity has acquired two ABD puppies to add to his Presa Canario and Old Time Bulldog collection. I don’t understand the appeal having so many dogs, particularly not such big ones.

a celebrity has acquired two ABD puppies to add to his Presa Canario and Old Time Bulldog collection
I presume his fanbase consists of the type of people who aspire to have such animals as pets...and lets face it they are the preserve of certain socio-economic groups

I don't think it's true that dogs don't protect their owners unless they're trained to. Ex DH kick shit out of me and dog went for him

Ex DH kick shit out of me and dog went for him

I hope you were both okay (you and dog, fuck exDH).

We had a Sheltie who was protective of us, especially our children, but when we weren’t around she played with other dogs really well. She could go to “doggy day camp” and socialize with dogs just fine. But on a leash with one of us could not interact with other dogs appropriately. Her preferred place to sleep was in front of our children’s bedroom door.

She was a herding dog, and I think those instincts to protect sheep drove her behavior.

The dogs we’ve had have shown their breed instincts. It’s one of the reasons I don’t trust breeds that were bred to fight.

There is a nature vs nurture debate about dogs. Of course nurture plays a role, but the nature part is huge, always there just below the surface.

However, some on this thread think all dogs have the same instincts and that isn’t true. Different breeds have very different instincts.

fortuna

It’s Professor Green, so you’re spot on.

Owning a Presa Canario baffles me. They have killed way too many humans, as a breed. They make Pit Bulls look like tiny little things in comparison.

See I used to adore dogs. We have gsds I never trusted them alone with my children because that would be stupid. However the other week an on lead dog attacked my toddler in her pushchair. I can’t even look at a dog now without being scared and on edge be it my own or others on or off lead. I’ve been attacked by dogs and just kind of been ok well that dog has an idiot owner but now it’s my child I’ve become scared of dogs even my own. I make my mum lock hers in her garden before I will come though the front door. My toddler will climb up me if she so much as sees a dog now rather than mama woof woof.

Too many idiots own dogs and make it horrible for the rest of us. I don’t know if I will get over this fear now it’s been my own child honestly right now I would be happy to never see a dog again in my life.

Professor Green, so you’re spot on
doesnt he see himself as some sort of maverick intellectual(?)...presume the dog preference is tied up with that image of himself.
It's also surely about masculinity and the feeling of power that comes from mastery over the brute of a dog (until it rips your throat out that is) , and surely they must enjoy the way that other dogs and people are intimidated, in many cases obviously frightened of the dog.

Fuck me I'd be scared of it, I regularly cross the road to avoid much smaller dogs than that

Can I just say that not everyone who has big dogs does so for the 'macho' image - i'd have a pit, i'd have a presa if i had the right environment. I regularly take mastiffs/staffs etc. I take great delight in walking my dogs down the road & encouraging people to come & say hi to my soft as shit muscle machines!

I used to be one of the deed not breed people, But since having children and hearing so many stories both on national and local media, usually always involving pit bull type dogs, I now firmly believe that the law doesn't go far enough to protect both the public and the naive owners from this breed of dog, one that although presumed soppy by its doting owner, can cause so much harm if it does turn.
We have one in our street, not long ago it arrived off it's lead and was weaving between my legs, my pushchair and my older DC (5) I obviously looked terrified cause the owner laughed and told me he was soppy as fu@k ..... his words not mine!, two weeks later however it attacked another dog and it's owner badly and I now almost jump into the hedge whenever I see it coming!
They are already banned by law but it's a useless law as the numbers seemed to have increased if anything!

But they're not as soft as shit are they
These dogs are the result of breeders who have selected for certain temperamental and physiological characteristics
If you want a soft as shit dog why not get one that isn't capable inflicting serious damage?