To be shocked by the young woman killed by her own pit bull dogs in the USA?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

I have just seen this, and find it really shocking. Is it not extremely unusual for well-loved dogs to turn on their owner?

It seems different from the awful stories where a dog savages a child in a family. The reports are that this woman had her dogs since puppyhood, and friends said they were very affectionate - surely that's not a sign of an insecure or fearful dog who snaps and mauls somebody?

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks when it comes to dogs on Mumsnet, what do you think - is this just a very rare incident? Or what is the most likely reason?

I love dogs, I found this pretty shocking and very sad.

I now firmly believe that the law doesn't go far enough to protect both the public and the naive owners from this breed of dog

Agree there is literally nothing you can do you can't even carry pepper spray, when I go out I see dogs as heavy as I am with massive powerful Jaws
I wouldn't stand a chance

@muttmad, why wasn't the dog destroyed after it attacked another dog and it's owner?

Rather than “Deed not breed” it could probably be better summed up as “BreedING not breed”.

A Staffie or PB bred carefully for temperament could well be safer than a badly bred Collie or Lab.

Similarly though a badly bred Staffie or PB, with aggression in the line is more than likely going to be more dangerous than other breeds because although the locking jaw thing is a complete myth they do have incredibly strong jaws and are designed to be tenacious.

But there is no way of knowing if a particular dog is temperamentally safe or unsafe, and no mechanism whatsoever in place to control dog breeding so that temperamentally unsafe dogs don't occur.

When I encounter a dog the only information I have about it is how physically powerful it is whether it's on a lead whether it's muzzled and whether its owner that looks capable of restraining it should it decide to take off.

The fact that the owner laughs and says the dog is as soft as shit and wouldn't hurt a fly is neither Here nor There

the locking jaw thing is a complete myth they do have incredibly strong jaws and are designed to be tenacious

Which means that for all intents and they DO have jaws which will 'lock' onto their prey

Bull breeds have a tenacity to hold once they catch their prey. I think it's called 'fight bite' or something? Yep they can be difficult to unhook.

But going by the whole breeding thing, by that token then we shouldn't have any breed of dog that was bred for a purpose. So your GSD, your Husky, all your big dogs. Because you can't guarantee that they have had their original working instincts bred out of them. I don't like the idea of that; personally a world that only has little dogs in is my idea of hell!

People constantly go on about the high statistics for 'pit bull' bites; the statistics are not pit bull bites. The UK doesn't have pits like the UK does, we have 'types'. So if you broke those statistics down properly instead of the way the hype does, you'd probably find that some were staff crosses, some mastiffs, some lab crosses (yes surprisingly they do get typed). Lumping them altogether just feed this 'dangerous dog' hype without an actual backing.

BSL - again, the law that dictates 'pits' are dangerous - is bullshit. In 25 years the stats for dog attacks has risen not dropped. Yet the number of 'type' dogs seized has increased?? Something not right there. And again, if you go through a gallery of dogs seized & destroyed under BSL you would see a range or breed mixes. Type is defined by numbers, not DNA. So if you had a particularly square shaped bitzer that fit the bill, you might find your beloved dog typed

a world that only has little dogs
That would be a big improvement, I would also like a limit on the number of dogs per household, and no dogs off the lead, also better policing for dog fouling.
For their owners dogs are an enjoyable Self Indulgence for other people dogs are a nuisance they need to be controlled more severely.

If we made it compulsory for dogs to be licensed with a licence fee imposed every year and insured so that if your dog attacks someone then the victim could claim on your insurance
Well that might help to encourage people to be responsible dog owners

Ohfortuna a dog licence will just see an increase in 'underground' dog owners. Responsible dog owners already do everything they can to ensure their dogs are not a nuisance. You only have to look at the chipping law recently; the number of straying dogs that are unchipped hasn't really changed. Why? Because nobody is policing it.

As a dog owner i have no issue with keeping my dogs on leads. It's safer for them as well as others. An increase in designated areas for dogs would be perfect, then nobody would feel the need to let their energetic pooch loose in a playpark for example.

To me the answer is easy; tougher enforcements of the rules. Which means if you are stupid enough to let your dog off leash knowing it is a menace, you as the owner should face consequences. It isn't the dog's fault. Currently everything focuses on punishing the dog, leaving owners free to go buy a new dog to ruin.

On a side not, i think i'd leave the country if we were only allowed small dogs 😱 Small dogs worry me more than big dogs; they're noisier too in my experience 😂

Liability insurance is also a great idea, we always tagged that on to our own insurance. It isn't expensive but saves a lot of hassle!

a dog licence will just see an increase in 'underground' dog owners. Responsible dog owners already do everything they can to ensure their dogs are not a nuisance. You only have to look at the chipping law recently; the number of straying dogs that are unchipped hasn't really changed. Why? Because nobody is policing it
Ok yes I can see that those are very salient points Mustbe

I'm encouraged to hear that you are fine with keeping your dogs on a lead however I do often see small humans with very large dogs and I feel that yes the dog may be on a lead but that person doesn't look strong enough to restrain it if it decided to take off.
What would be your view on that issue.
Also how do you feel about muzzles, it seems to me that if a powerful dog is muzzled that would make it a lot safer?

I'm thinking that your feelings about small dogs are linked to the way that they interact with your large dogs?

Currently everything focuses on punishing the dog
I have to disagree with this
if a dog is euthanized this is not a punishment for the dog
the dog doesn't suffer it just ceases to exist
the loss is to the owner

I disagree that dogs shouldn’t be allowed off lead, ever.

A well socialised dog who is allowed regular off lead exercise is much more likely to be happy and well adjusted than a dog who is never allowed off lead. There are lots of dogs unable to go off lead for various reasons, and they can still be happy and healthy but to automatically deny all dogs the opportunity to fully enjoy life is cruel and unnecessary

But looks can be deceiving Oh i know some small people who have better control of their big dogs than some bigger folk have of their dogs. And control doesn't just involve strength.

I have no issues with muzzles; again a responsible owner will muzzle their dog if that dog poses a threat. Muzzles are also fab for other issues too not just aggression.

My feelings on small dogs are based on my own experiences with them; i find bigger dogs more predictable than smaller dogs, i find them to be more 'readable' than smaller dogs.

An irresponsible dog owner who loses their dog to uncontrolled aggression is more likely to go out & simply buy another dog. Unfortunately have seen it many times before...so the loss really isn't to the owner because there are always BYB waiting to unload dogs on people.

Little in an ideal world every dog would be well socialised & under control. But faced with the choice of losing certain breeds versus keeping a dog on a lead i'd much rather keep my dog on a lead. None of mine were ever allowed off leash; there are a huge variety of possibilities other than simply letting your dog run free on a field

to automatically deny all dogs the opportunity to fully enjoy life is cruel and unnecessary
what about my right to use public spaces without being accosted and menaced by off lead dogs?

In my experience this 'my dog has a right to a full and happy life and you just have to put up with whatever than entails' attitude is prevalent amoung dog owners.
As if dogs and the freedom to own them ad libitum are an inevitable fact of life.

In my view this:
faced with the choice of losing certain breeds versus keeping a dog on a lead i'd much rather keep my dog on a lead
is a rare sentiment
Mustbe you come across as a conscientious dog owner who is aware of the need to appease non dog owners, it doesnt seem to occur to the majority that their freedom to enjoy canine company could be curtailed, public opinion can shift....every person injured or frightened by a dog can potentially become part of a campaign against dogs

what about my right to use public spaces without being accosted and menaced by off lead dogs?

Menaced? Really? Gosh, where do you live?

What about my right to go about public spaces without being irritated by children, teenagers, dawdlers, cats, cars of an offensive to me colour ... ?

We live in a society. We all have likes and dislikes. Obviously people must control their dogs and not allow them to irritate others, but no, non-dog lovers do not have a right to demand that well-behaved dogs are kept on leads.

Smile and go about your day!

Obviously people must control their dogs and not allow them to irritate others
but they dont do they, and they wont acknowledge that their dogs are a nuisance

Well yes, most of them do actually.

Perhaps you are talking about a park in mid-summer when fair weather dog walkers are out and about one or two days a year with poorly trained dogs. I'd agree they are irritating.

However, the vast majority of dog walkers are out two or three times a day, in all weathers, controlling their dogs perfectly well thank you!

Unfortunately oh it does appear that selfish desires on the part of an owner overrides the general well-being of society. I work with rescue dogs, i see on a daily basis how fucked up selfish, irresponsible dog owners can make dogs. I have also had to deal with dog attacks - never on myself, but on other people & more frequently dog on dog - and i can say hand on heart every one has been human error. Often it is people who let their beloved pooch offlead then ignore the pleas from owners like myself who have their dogs on lead - for very good reason - to rein theirs in. Same with children; i have seen owners fighting to keep small, screaming children from flouncing all over their terrified dog because 'he's so cute i want a cuddle'

For me it's an overall society thing. You have kids? Keep an eye on them & don't assume everybody wants your child hanging off them or their dog. You have dogs? Keep them under control & don't assume that everybody likes your pooch.

I still don't agree with the banning of big breeds (never going to change as i am hardcore bull breed fanatic) but the key is education & control. And not letting all & sundry breed a dog because it looks cute, or it has a good personality, or it will make them loads of money 😡😡

Whitney i have to disagree with you. In our area, the dog walkers that take group walks have been absolutely lambasted because they take 4 or more dogs at a time with no control.

Remember the story about the beagle killed by two ambulls in the park? The dog walker had several dogs & no control over the off lead ones. Now i am in no way at all saying it was her fault he got ripped apart - and the owner of the ambulls should have been shot on sight - but had the beagle been fully under control she may have been able to remove herself & her dogs from that situation.

I think there should be a limit to the number of dogs you can walk at once. Even with the best trained pack in the world it takes one dog to lose focus & rile the rest up. That includes little dogs too...i've seen them buggars dragging old ladies down the road 😂

I am talking about public footpaths at all times of the year and in all weathers where I invariably encounter dogs which are a nuisance

If we stipulate all dogs must be on leads on footpaths, can we also ban cyclists or is that too far? Bloody hate cyclists (sorry to any reading)

Aaaah, I'd agree with you entirely there, mustbemad17 - have often been seen to state on here that I think dog walkers a curse and owners should avoid most of them like the plague! No-one can control large groups of dogs, particularly when they are strange to each other and the owner, and I actually have no doubt that these large groups make issues more likely as they are threatening to other dogs.

However, normal sensible dog walkers, out early, late and whenever - I walk in many many different places, three times a day, and 99% of dogs go about their business perfectly happily.