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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be shocked by the young woman killed by her own pit bull dogs in the USA?

315 replies

AbsentmindedWoman · 19/12/2017 14:37

I have just seen this, and find it really shocking. Is it not extremely unusual for well-loved dogs to turn on their owner?

It seems different from the awful stories where a dog savages a child in a family. The reports are that this woman had her dogs since puppyhood, and friends said they were very affectionate - surely that's not a sign of an insecure or fearful dog who snaps and mauls somebody?

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks when it comes to dogs on Mumsnet, what do you think - is this just a very rare incident? Or what is the most likely reason?

I love dogs, I found this pretty shocking and very sad.

OP posts:
SplitEndz · 19/12/2017 14:42

My friends dog turned with no warning, it had to be put down and was found to have a massive brain tumour. So I can understand how it can happen. But an animal is an animal is an anaimal no matter how much you think you have trained it or domesticated it, the fact remains, it is an animal.

Frequency · 19/12/2017 14:43

It's very rare, although it seems to happen more frequently in America than in other countries and I'm not sure why. It might be the way they're bred but it's more likely to be something to do with the way they are trained and kept.

Is Cesar Millan a big deal in the US? That could explain it.

Also a pack of dogs is more likely to turn than one or two dogs. Pack mentality comes into play when there's a large group of dogs.

Scaredycat3000 · 19/12/2017 14:45

And yet I'm the mad one for not thinking dc and dogs should be playmates.
This happens quite regularly, about once every six months anecdotally in the UK. It happens because they, like many animals including humans, can be unpredictable.

Tinselistacky · 19/12/2017 14:47

The article I read said her df is adamant they wouldn't have attacked her, that they were enclosed and their kennel showed signs of a break out as if they had gone to seek her when she was missing... Surely a post mortem will show if it as them though or a wild animal? Poor girl it's stomach churning to know she fought back.

Kursk · 19/12/2017 14:47

My suspicion is that a fight broke out between the dogs over a toy, or food. She tried braking up the fight and it escalated.

humblesims · 19/12/2017 14:47

It is really sad. But, yes it does happen. I read an awful story of a women who was ttacked and very badly injured by her jack russell who she let sleep on the bed. It was a loved and loving animal. This is one reason I hate to see dogs made to pose in photos with babies so they look cute.

Trinity66 · 19/12/2017 14:49

Is Cesar Millan a big deal in the US? That could explain it Don't you like him? I love his show Grin

Trinity66 · 19/12/2017 14:50

I read an awful story of a women who was ttacked and very badly injured by her jack russell who she let sleep on the bed

imo people have forgotten that animals are animals and shouldn't be treated like children, they're not children, and treating them that way tells them they're the boss and then things like this happen

scrabbler3 · 19/12/2017 14:52

There was an incident in the UK a few years ago where a dog was spooked by its owner having an epileptic fit, and attacked him. Who knows what triggered it in this case. Poor woman.

GetMeOutOfHerePlease · 19/12/2017 14:53

It’s very sad and sounds like she met a horrific end.

Her father is insisting the dogs would never have hurt her and that they didn’t do it.

It’s so so sad and I feel for all the family.

I can’t bring myself to fully trust any dog, I know that ownership plays a big part, but its not unknown for dogs brought up by brilliant responsible loving owners to turn, however rare it may be, I won’t take the chance with my own dog and lever her unsupervised around children.

MismatchedCat · 19/12/2017 14:53

I did a bit of research on this topic a few months ago. Most of the articles I found where previously loving dogs turned on their owner happened when it was two dogs together, not one. I think they must encourage each other and get "caught up in the moment". This was also true for cases where dogs escaped from their yard and attacked strangers. It mostly seemed to be two dogs together, not lone dogs.

It's enough to make me think that I would never have two powerful dogs together under one roof, because I think it increases the risk of these freak attacks.

Original poster
AbsentmindedWoman · 19/12/2017 14:56

I admit, I don't like seeing the photos of babies and dogs or cats posed very closely together either. They creep me out slightly because I think all it takes is one split second where the dog or cat gets a fright and feels the need to defend itself and there could be a bite or a scratch.

OP posts:
Original poster
AbsentmindedWoman · 19/12/2017 14:57

Yes, pack mentality is a good point. I suppose I'd thought they'd have seen their owner as the leader of their pack? But something must have gone very badly wrong.

OP posts:
GetMeOutOfHerePlease · 19/12/2017 15:00

Don't you like him? I love his show

I used to think he was brill too until I was researching dog training methods and learnt a lot of dog trainers actually think he’s abusive.

One video he’s trying to show owners how to handle their food aggressive dog, I recall he pisses about trying to take away its food, then towers over a dog who is showing signs of aggression, trying to dominate it and he then goes to stroke it and dog bites.

I’ve also seen where he —kicks-- ‘taps’ dogs with his feet in the ribs to get them to comply.

tehmina23 · 19/12/2017 15:01

My cat used to be aggressive & turn on me as she is a rescue cat who was not socialised; she's lovely now but I still wouldn't trust her with a child.

At least cats can't do much damage with their teeth but I got badly scratched - if she was a dog she would have been pts.

Dogs can turn if spooked or alarmed by a sudden movement or noise, also they are pack animals who will act together.
The US police have released awful details of the poor woman's death to prove to people it was definitely the dogs who killed her.

It's such a sad case.

crazycatgal · 19/12/2017 15:03

This is why I wouldn't get a powerful breed of dog. People go on about how friendly their staffie is (and I'm sure it is) but at the end of the day if it did bite for whatever reason then it would do a lot of damage.

hamptonhangingpork · 19/12/2017 15:04

My condolences to the lady's family.

Pitbull types, staffies etc. always get a raised eyebrow from me when I see them toddle down the road. But I live in Sarf Essex and there are a lot here, and even more in the surrounding shelters when they get a bit too big / physical for their usually inexperienced owners.

Animals are animals and whether they are the size of a small pony or a large rat, can conceivably take chunks out of you. Especially when they have their doggy friends backing them up.

pallisers · 19/12/2017 15:05

It's very rare, although it seems to happen more frequently in America than in other countries and I'm not sure why. It might be the way they're bred but it's more likely to be something to do with the way they are trained and kept.

horrible for that woman and her family. I doubt american dogs are that different from dogs in the rest of the world (although it does bring a whole new level to the anti-american bias on MN - now it's the dogs, next the cats will be vulgar and the hamsters speaking in a silly accent). You hear about it more in the US (if you do) because it is a bigger country with more people and more dogs.

Frequency · 19/12/2017 15:05

Dogs don't really have a pack leader in the way wolves do. That's a myth and the reason why CM's training techniques are so dangerous. They do co-operate as a pack to get food/shelter etc and they will bond and protect each other as a pack. There are naturally dominant dogs and naturally submissive dogs but there's no clear pack hierarchy as there is with wolves.

Pack mentality comes into play when large groups of dogs get frustrated or frightened. Their own body language frustrates or frightens the other dogs and they start acting as a pack. People also have a pack mentality only we call it mob mentality.

I've not read up on this particular case, so wouldn't want to guess what caused but it is very unusual for previously loving dogs to turn with no warning. Something odd must've happened to trigger it.

Trinity66 · 19/12/2017 15:07

I’ve also seen where he —kicks-- ‘taps’ dogs with his feet in the ribs to get them to comply

I've seen him do that but it doesn't really look like kicking the dogs, more like nudging them a bit. I'll have to read up a bit more on him now though!

PurplePotatoes · 19/12/2017 15:10

I can think of a couple of cases that have been in the news. There was one in the UK where the lady got knocked unconscious and the dog ate half of her face. There was also another case like this which I rmemeber as sadly the lady had a face transplant and then died from cancer causes by the anti rejection drugs Sad
They are extreme cases but it does happen probably more often than we realise.

SumThucker · 19/12/2017 15:11

I've grown up with dogs, and have one now, and have never had any turn, but I used to always ask my mum to lock her 4 dogs away when I visited with my young daughter, even though I knew them. Awful for this poor lady, to have dogs you love turn on you Sad

laudanum · 19/12/2017 15:12

Animals do that sort of thing for a few reasons:

Cancer/other serious illness.
They've been poisoned.
The person hurt them previously somehow.
Epilepsy can also be a factor.

There are a few reasons really. My old bulldog who was the sweetest thing got very snappy in the last stages of his life when I got cancer. He bit someone once and they were really understanding because it was more of a nip; but I took him to the vet cos it was totally out of character. It's always sad when stuff like this happens. :(

Scaredycat3000 · 19/12/2017 15:13

My ds1 was 36 hours old when the local dog owner used my cat as bait for his dogs, ds1 was 44 hours old when we heard the dog owner on his phone talking about the dog pulling at it's lead had got my cats scent and was just about to finish the job and kill it. My MW MIL was somehow oblivious to how jealous her dog was at the new baby GC in the house, she was quite happy to let the dog snap and bark inches away from my NB ds1, then later ds2, just kept smacking it on the nose.
Absent Scratches happen in every day life, being ripped apart by an animal is often preventable. So whilst I perfectly understand why people don't want dogs or cats near their dc don't make out that the danger is in anyway comparable, it's not.

ohfortuna · 19/12/2017 15:14

This is why I wouldn't get a powerful breed of dog. People go on about how friendly their staffie is (and I'm sure it is) but at the end of the day if it did bite for whatever reason then it would do a lot of damage

I agree, but large powerful dogs are extremely popular, I suspect part of the attraction is the feeling of power and control which they get from being 'master' of a potentially lethal weapon.
I'm not remotely suprised that these dogs sometimes kill their owners, ffs what do you expect from a dog like that?
if you want a pet be rational and dont chose something which could easily overpower you and rip your throat out..duh
I'd rather they kill the owner than attack an innocent bystander.