To be shocked by the young woman killed by her own pit bull dogs in the USA?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

I have just seen this, and find it really shocking. Is it not extremely unusual for well-loved dogs to turn on their owner?

It seems different from the awful stories where a dog savages a child in a family. The reports are that this woman had her dogs since puppyhood, and friends said they were very affectionate - surely that's not a sign of an insecure or fearful dog who snaps and mauls somebody?

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks when it comes to dogs on Mumsnet, what do you think - is this just a very rare incident? Or what is the most likely reason?

I love dogs, I found this pretty shocking and very sad.

Don't start down the vegetarian road Oh because i know many veggies & vegans who would scream murder at meat eaters.

BYB - and in fact even bloody KC breeding - needs a total overhaul. So many breeds have been destroyed through bad breeding, and there are a lot of breeds being overbred. Seeing a lot of husky/malamute types this year. And Frenchies thanks to the celeb hype about them 😡😡

Yet there are some truly awesome rehoming stories about bulls. The Vicks' fighting dogs for example; he was an absolute bastard to those dogs, reading the reports made me sick. Yet a lot of his ex fighters or breeding bitches were successfully rehab'd & rehomed with no issues.

crazy totally agree. All dogs should be neutered by law unless you are going to breed, and to be allowed to breed you should need a licence.

The pedigree breeders think they're better than BYB, and in a lot of ways they are, but they have still managed to destroy many breeds over the years in order to get more extreme characteristics and make more money. Just look up how much bull dogs or English bull terriers have changed over the last 100 years.

KC breeders are often just as scummy as BYB imo. There was a KC top judge at Crufts who knowingly bred from her deaf boxer because he 'looked the part' 😡 And altho there are meant to be limits to how often bitches are bred from, nothing happens if the owner breeds in between 'registered' litters for money value.

I know some top notch breeders who are responsible as hell & make sure their dogs go to good homes. I have also sadly had KC pedigree dogs handed over to rescue with bloody papers 😡 Gah

I think bull breeds get a bad rap to be fair. In the right hands (I don't mean super experienced, I mean responsible enough to walk the dog a reasonable amount, feed it twice daily, show affection and not reward aggression) they are amazing dogs with a beautiful temperament around people of all ages.

I agree that it's the owners they attract which causes the problems. Sadly, in our area, those particular type of young men have moved on to larger, more powerful breeds such as Akitas, Mals, Huskies and crosses thereof and that terrifies me.

I had to walk past one to get my house with my dog yesterday and my heart was in my mouth. I considered walking back to the park and trying my luck later, I was that scared. A young rake of a lad had a badly controlled, stressed out Akita bouncing about on a harness. In general, I'm not afraid of Akitas, quite the opposite, I'm considering one for myself in the distant future, I've owned them in the past. They are gorgeous dogs but not for the novice owner. We got past this one safely but minutes later, it escaped it's owner and went tearing towards the park alone. The poor thing is an accident waiting to happen. I'd feel much safer out with my own dog if these men went back to their bull breeds and left the big dogs for the grown-ups to manage.

Mustbemad I promise I am not a staffy or bull breed hater. I actually think the vast majority of them are lovely dogs however it's well known that they are boisterous, strong and have a tendancy to be dog aggressive so for me I find it frustrating when people do reccomend them for families without mentioning the negative as they end up in rescue time and time again for the above problems. I would say the majority I have assisted in euthanising have killed or mauled other dogs NOT humans.
I often hear "oh but they are nanny dogs" especially on the forum with people expecting them to come ready made babysitters without the knowledge or experience to train them correctly.

If you are aware of the pitfalls, know how to counteract them and are willing to do lots of work to make them a shining example of the breed that then fair enough but most people don't.

It's the same as people who buy GSD and then wonder why they are guarding property or the handler or who get a collie and wonder why they have nipped someone on the arse... if people read what they were buying into it would solve so many problems and people glossing over the negative does not help the situation IMO.

A huge amount of rommies have issues, again something many gloss over in order to save them but in reality lots of these dogs just can't function in society. I used to think they could all be fixed but after trying and failing to rehabilitate a very messed up dog myself I am much more black and white now sadly

Sadly, in our area, those particular type of young men have moved on to larger, more powerful breeds such as Akitas, Mals, Huskies and crosses thereof and that terrifies me

According to Diego you have an irrational phobia and you need to educate yourself, people shouldn't have to change their lives just because of your irrational fears

Well that's what I was told by her when I said that large powerful dogs make me nervous....

Grey i genuinely didn't peg you as a bull hater from your posts. By the sounds of it the line of work you are in means you see the worst.

I agree wholeheartedly that people need to research their chosen breed. In-depth. I get asked to foster big dogs a lot because I have experience dealing with issues that could bring on aggression; i have a list of breeds i will not touch. Not because they are bad breeds, quite the opposite; for some breeds i would be a bad home.

Rommies especially have such a shitty start to life that they have every reason to be fearful. I work with a rescue who brings foreign dogs over...one by one as they have the correct home/foster. The difference in their dogs compared to the idiots who ship them over in droves is unreal. And you see what type of people they home to immediately when a missing poster goes up after a day; dog let off the lead, left in the garden alone, not double leashed etc. My biggest handful of a dog was my rommie boy, who would squeeze his fat arse out of the tiny top window in my house to escape. Or scale 8ft fences like nothing 🙄

The whole system of dog ownership, dog breeding, dog rescue needs shaking up massively. But it needs to be a blanket overhaul i think, not a breed specific one

ohfortuna, I'm sorry if I upset you, but you do have an irrational phobia, by the very definitions of the words. Since dog ownership is an immutable part of our culture, I was suggesting that you would be better off trying to allay your phobia than living in fear every time you go out and pass a dog.

Large, powerful dogs do not make me nervous.

Large, powerful, uncontrolled dogs with clueless owners make me nervous. Dog on dog attacks have increased ten fold in our area since the northern breeds have become more popular with these men. It's the exact reason I am considering one of my own. I want to feel safe walking my dog, not constantly worried that he's about to be torn to bits by an unsocialised, untrained Akita. We never had this when they were into their bully breeds.

In the right hands, the northern breeds are amazing, though Akitas tend to be aloof with strangers and need careful and intensive socialisation from a very young age. I wouldn't recommend them to an owner with no prior experience of them.

My most poignant memory of a rescue we did was after a call from social services. Police & SS had raided a house (drugs) & removed three children. The RSPCA were called because four dogs also remained in the property, two of them being bull crosses. We witnessed the RSPCA have to catch pole two dogs - a collie type & a bitzer - into the van because they were so aggressive. They would not touch the two bulls & we were told to remove them or they'd be shot!!! We put two bulls into the back of the car as meek as lambs. Beautiful dogs, beautiful natured. The other two were PTS for aggression 😔

I'd feel much safer out with my own dog if these men went back to their bull breeds and left the big dogs for the grown-ups to manage

I have no doubt that the young man in question considers himself a grown-up who is perfectly capable of handling this dangerous dog
just like you pride yourself on your superior knowledge of dogs and ability to handle dangerous dogs

Oh so it's just big dogs that worry you, or a specific 'type' of dog?

An imported dog has kept out local dog rescue and local FB page busy for months. The dedicated dog rescue spent a solid week, 24 hours a day in the end before they caught the dog. No mention of the people who brought it over No idea if any of the local farmers livestock would have been affected, we also have graphic regular FB posts showing dead sheep along with gruesome tales, though usually presumed to be owned dogs.
I couldn't agree more The whole system of dog ownership, dog breeding, dog rescue needs shaking up massively. But it needs to be a blanket overhaul i think, not a breed specific one

We never had this when they were into their bully breeds.
No they ripped apart other family pets like my cat. They were bull type brother and sister.

Irrational phobia A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.
On a thread about dogs killing it's owner saying it is irrational to have a phobia about dogs shows a staggering amount of not understanding basic english, and compassion.

Scaredycat i know of three who have been on the run as it were for months. I also sadly know of one rescue who has repeated the same 'mistakes' with their foreign dogs & two have been killed whilst loose. It's disgusting.

In fairness, a lot of other breeds would also kill a cat if they had chance. My friends Chi sees cats as fair game & has caused a LOT of bet bills 😱

But can you say the same for men? The statistics for violence towards women by men is staggering...does one have an irrational fear of men based on the statistics?

But this thread isn't about the question of whether men are more dangerous than dogs

On a thread about dogs killing it's owner saying it is irrational to have a phobia about dogs shows a staggering amount of not understanding basic english, and compassion

Really? You're trying to argue that a fear of dogs is not an irrational phobia, at the same time as telling someone else they don't understand basic English. Good one.

It isn't Oh but it's a fair question based on the comments. Is it just big, muscly dogs you have a fear of, & if so do you then fear big, muscly blokes for the same reason? Not sure of the statistics but one is probably more likely to hurt you than the other so stands to reason it's been asked

Dogs are awesome imo. I definitely prefer my DF’s dogs company to the company of many humans. But I sometimes wonder whether we’ve forgotten that dogs are animals. Or that others aren’t required to like our pets...

Many dog owners don’t seem to see the need to control their dog. No, your dog isn’t not allowed to sniff my toddler. And no, screaming ‘he isn’t dangerous’ won’t magically change that.

What else...? I am afraid of dogs that seem out of control. Especially large dogs. There’s nothing irrational (and therefore nothing ‘phobic’)about this.

Dogs that tear apart other people’s pets should be leashed before leaving their owner’s property.

Yes, many responsible dog owners know this, which is awesome. But saying ‘I don’t do this’ or ‘my dog isn’t like this’ doesn’t change the fact that there are too many irresponsible dog owners / out of dogs.

Dogs are rather privileged critters in the U.K. imo, btw.

I am nervous of dogs who are not properly controlled by their owners
I was recently attacked by a dog with no warning as I walked past it since then I give all dogs a very wide berth

I am not especially fear full of men but I pay attention to their mannerisms and behaviour and I also give them a wide berth if I perceive them to be at all threatening

saying i don't do this' or 'my dog isn't like that' doesn't change the fact there are too many irresponsible owners out there

You're right it doesn't. But saying all dogs of a particular breed are dangerous doesn't make it true either.

Responsible dog owners do a lot to try & 'heal their rep' as it were; the irresponsible ones ruin it for everybody, owner or not. But stereotyping people based on their dog, on a dog based on its breed, doesn't change that.