To be shocked by the young woman killed by her own pit bull dogs in the USA?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

I have just seen this, and find it really shocking. Is it not extremely unusual for well-loved dogs to turn on their owner?

It seems different from the awful stories where a dog savages a child in a family. The reports are that this woman had her dogs since puppyhood, and friends said they were very affectionate - surely that's not a sign of an insecure or fearful dog who snaps and mauls somebody?

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks when it comes to dogs on Mumsnet, what do you think - is this just a very rare incident? Or what is the most likely reason?

I love dogs, I found this pretty shocking and very sad.

Link to the story

I have seen a press report that suggests that the dogs were not as well looked after in the last few weeks - that they were staying with this woman's father, had limited contact with her, and were kept outside (whereas they had previously been indoor pets). If that is right, perhaps the "bond" they had with owner had been compromised? Whether that goes any way to explain this, who knows.

That’s interesting about menstruation. I must look our for changes in behaviours in my dog. Although he is neutered, not sure if that makes a difference.

So much COULD have happened here, until the dogs are examined to see if they actually have stomach contents that prove they ate bits of her, and bite marks are compared with the dogs teeth... we cannot say with any certainty that the dogs did it. Even with that, we still cannot say that they initiated an attack or killed her.

This woman was walking where there is wildlife that could, would, and has killed humans.

Theres plenty of precedent for dogs being triggered to attack by someone having a fit, or also for injuring, killing or damaging a dead body in desperate attempts to revive someone in a coma or actually dead.

It is INCREDIBLY unusual for dogs to attack their owner whilst out, if everything else is 'right' in their world, ie, they are not traumatised, they are not starved, no ones fallen or had a fit or been attacked by something else first.

I've seen a few dogs turn in my line of work and it's bloody scary when it does happen. The last one I saw (staff) was so frenzied after it had killed its sister over a toy and turned on the family, it was terrifying to see how strong and relentless it was. It's not the first and I don't expect it will be the last I deal with so it's not just in America.

I would put bets on redirected aggression triggered by something but still it's so sad to think it was her own dogs. I doubt they were protecting her from wildlife, if so they would be injured themselves no doubt and also I'm sure there would be signs of the injured attacker- after all 2 pitbulls would leave fair damage to any animal in their path.

I have two large breed dogs, they do make me feel safer and I wouldn't like to think they would do this to me but I am under no illusion that they are animals and they are treated as such. They are not of the fighting breed type thankfully and I wouldn't have any sort of dog bred for fighting in my house.

This is an awful story and I doubt we'll get the truth of the situation. But before we start saying how dogs can't be trusted/are never truly domesticated, etc, I think it's important to keep some perspective.

You are far, far more likely to be attacked and or killer by a man than a dog.

A child is far more likely to be abused or killed by one of their own parents than attacked by the family dog.

(To anyone giving side eyes to pit bulls or staffers...) Labradors bite more people than any other breed, I'm sure that's not because they're bad dogs, just because they're popular so there is more of them.

Dogs have more to fear from us than we have to fear from them, they are abused and hurt by us in far larger numbers than the other way around, yet we are meant to be the civialised, domesticated, intelligent ones.

Just things to keep in mind. I don't mean to down play this story, it's horrific, but dogs overall are very safe, much safer to be around than human beings!

The National Canine Research Council in the US has published some comprehensive papers on dog bites, breeds, media bias, etc. that some people on this thread might find interesting (especially those going on about how dangerous all dogs/certain breeds are and how you'd have to be stupid to own one).

For example:

Consider how the media reported four incidents that happened between August 18th and August 21st, 2007:

August 18: A Labrador mix attacked a 70-year-old man sending him to the hospital in critical condition. Police officers arrived at the scene and the dog was shot after charging the officers. This incident was reported in one article and only in the local paper.

August 19: A 16-month old child received fatal head and neck injuries after being attacked by a mixed breed dog. This attack was reported two times by the local paper only.

August 20: A 6-year-old boy was hospitalized after having his ear torn off and receiving severe bites to the head by a medium-sized mixed breed dog. This attack was reported in one article and only in the local paper.

August 21: A 59-year-old woman was attacked in her home by two Pit bulls and was hospitalized with severe injuries. This attack was reported in over 236 articles in national and international newspapers, as well as major television news networks, including CNN, MSNBC and FOX.

Also:

www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/sites/default/files/Dog-Bites-Problems-and-Solutions-2nd-Edition.pdf

^Dog bite-related fatalities (DBRFs) are extremely rare. They account for
about 1 in 92,000 (1/1,000 of 1 percent) of deaths in the United States
annually. Dog bite deaths occur at approximately half the rate
of lightning fatalities.^

The earliest study on pre and post-BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) dog bite rates was completed in the United Kingdom in the mid 1990s. The study concluded that the breed-specific provisions of the Dangerous Dogs Act of 1991 had had no effect whatever on the incidence of dog bite injuries. The Aberdeen Royal Infirmary researchers did find, however that “human bites were as common as those from the most implicated dog breed.” People bite and injure as often as any single breed of dog.

The Netherlands repealed its 15-year “pit bull” ban in 2008, having concluded that it had done nothing to reduce dog bites.

Good post angels. I agree with you there. Humans are the most dangerous species.

The last one I saw (staff) was so frenzied after it had killed its sister over a toy and turned on the family

Is that because of Adrenalin or Is there like a brain switch that flips and can’t be turned off once the dog has started attacking?

The Aberdeen Royal Infirmary researchers did find, however that “human bites were as common as those from the most implicated dog breed.” People bite and injure as often as any single breed of dog.

Feck! That's an eye opener

Labradors bite more people than any other breed

and lab bites tend to result in puncture wounds, not the tearing and internal injuries which are more common when bull-type breeds attack.

The poster who said 'my dog helped raise my children'

It didn't. It just happened to be there.

Human bites! wow!

I'm not sure Donny- that dog had a post mortem and had nothing physically wrong so I can only assume it was adrenaline. It was a very much loved dog and had not shown aggression before.

I see dogs killing eachother and being euthanised for biting people all the time, it's not a rare phenomenon. I'm sad to say most of the time it is a bull breed involved although not always. Probably because they are bigger and stronger than most other dogs out there or perhaps they just do more damage than your average yorkie or whatever. I wouldn't want one mainly as I don't want a dog that has an underlying genetic instinct to fight as I think the potential for it to go wrong is too high from what I've seen in my job over the years. I think that's probably what happened here, a fight kicked off and she's been stuck in the middle of it all. Incredibly sad

I must admit though 90% of the dogs I meet are lovely, including staffies and pit bulls however I am always aware of the damage any dog could do if they wanted too. One of the worst dogs I've ever met was a folder retriever cross ridgeback- it was like fighting with a lion rather than a dog

User7, there are a number of large dog breeds that are sweet hearts. Great Pyrenees, for example. Many dog breeds are naturally watchful and alert, and I sleep better with my dog nearby. Working with a dog with a really great trainer is very empowering.

Pit bulls are the breed most often involved in killing humans, including their owners. They are as likely to attack adults as children, which doesn’t follow the pattern for other dog breeds or even wolf hybrids.

And I agree with you that women are far more likely to be hurt by a man than dog.

Hip - off topic: I adore Great Pyrenees. A neighbour had one and it was daft as a brush. Jealous.

Pit bulls are the breed most often involved in killing humans

Do we have any evidence of this? I'd be interested to see it.

Pit bulls in America have be responsible fort he most deaths, that's true, but you also have to look at what sort of dogs young thugs are attracted to. I've seen young men encouraging their dogs to be aggressive more than once.

You're also 6 times more likely to be bitten by a male dog than female. It's not as simple as some breeds being more dangerous, there's far more to it. Ultimately though, you are FAR safer with a pit bull than your husband/male partner.

Also twice as likely to be bitten by an un-neutered dog....

As Grey appears to be involved in dangerous dogs (for a living?) and Hip is a massive dog lover I'm going to believe them. It's the biting and not letting go that concerns me the most, jack russels and labs may be common bitters but I presume they rarely cause major damage, unlike those muscle bound dogs.

House I read a similar article that said the dogs had been neglected the last few months and hadn't lived with the poor woman who died. She went horribly and I can only hope it was quick.

It’s these dangerous idiots (it’s always men in jogging bottoms ) I see in town (where kids are on scooters and prams!) with bull breeds off lead trotting 20 metres away from them to show how masterful they are. They buy badly bred dogs with no idea how to raise them or feed them or safeguard the dogs or the humans around them. They reward them for aggression, feed them crap, don’t socialise them properly and they never fucking neuter them. Because they couldn’t do that to him. How could they cut his balls off? Well mate, he’ll have no qualms about tearing yours off if the notion takes him. No anaesthetic.

It's the biting and not letting go that concerns me the most

All dogs can bite and refuse to let go.

The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any breed of dog.

There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of "locking mechanism” unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier

22 people on average killed in America each year by cows. Pit bulls and Pit mixes have killed 66 in THE LAST 20 YEARS.

There are also a lot of myths about castration being propagated on here. It's a strange thing about humans that so many of us just believe things because we've heard somebody else say them at some point.

The chances of being killed by a dog may be low compared to other causes of death, however I think I shouldnt have to put up with feeling scared when I go out because of the numbers of large muscular dogs roaming around
I often see dogs which look like they can very easily overpower their owner should they decide to, I regularly see a small woman walking a pack of huskies.... Yes really about 6 of them what's she going to do if they decide to take off after someone?

As a small woman I do feel vulnerable and I am very aware that dogs will defer to my partner, a large athletic man but not to me.