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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be shocked by the young woman killed by her own pit bull dogs in the USA?

315 replies

AbsentmindedWoman · 19/12/2017 14:37

I have just seen this, and find it really shocking. Is it not extremely unusual for well-loved dogs to turn on their owner?

It seems different from the awful stories where a dog savages a child in a family. The reports are that this woman had her dogs since puppyhood, and friends said they were very affectionate - surely that's not a sign of an insecure or fearful dog who snaps and mauls somebody?

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks when it comes to dogs on Mumsnet, what do you think - is this just a very rare incident? Or what is the most likely reason?

I love dogs, I found this pretty shocking and very sad.

OP posts:
DiegoMadonna · 19/12/2017 18:46

I shouldnt have to put up with feeling scared when I go out because of the numbers of large muscular dogs roaming around

Firstly, you are no more likely to be attacked by a large muscular dog than any other kind of dog. So I'd stop worrying about that.

Secondly, you're more likely to get hit by a car or struck by lightning than attacked and killed by a dog. So your fear is irrational. I agree, you shouldn't have to feel scared when you leave your house, but equally, people shouldn't have to change their lives because of the irrational fears of a few other people. Keeping dogs as pets is culturally ingrained, it's not going to change, it's extreeeeemely safe statistically, and there is evidence of a range of benefits of owning a pet dog too. Perhaps better to educate yourself a little and try to confront the reasons behind your phobia.

AngelsSins · 19/12/2017 18:49

Diego it's a fact that you're twice as likely to be bitten by an un neutered dog, that's not a myth. That's not necessarily because in tact dogs are more dangerous, but could be that bad owners (especially thug types) are less likely to bother neutering their dog.

MismatchedCat · 19/12/2017 18:52

Firstly, you are no more likely to be attacked by a large muscular dog than any other kind of dog. So I'd stop worrying about that.

But a large muscular dog is more capable of inflicting worse injuries than a little dog. That's the point.

Original poster
AbsentmindedWoman · 19/12/2017 18:56

As a small woman I do feel vulnerable and I am very aware that dogs will defer to my partner, a large athletic man but not to me.

That's surprising, and intrigues me. I'm 5'3 and never feel like my size makes me more of a potential target for aggression from dogs when out and about.

OP posts:
ohfortuna · 19/12/2017 18:57

But a large muscular dog is more capable of inflicting worse injuries than a little dog. That's the point
Quite!
But Diego is so feverishly banging the drum for her beloved pitbulls that she refuses to accept that a large powerful dog is far more dangerous than a little tiny one

DonnyAndVladSittingInATree · 19/12/2017 18:57

I regularly see a small woman walking a pack of huskies.... Yes really about 6 of them what's she going to do if they decide to take off after someone?

A tiny woman near me walks 3 massive akitas on her own. It gives me heart palpitations just thinking about it.

Bluelonerose · 19/12/2017 18:59

It's sad that it happens and I agree with everything pps have said regarding you just never know with animals.

I grew up with 2 Afghan hounds (there were there years before me) yet I am not comfortable around big dogs.
All throughout my childhood it seemed to be the dog first. E.g. I didn't want the dog in my room hed be allowed in. I didn't want him around me when I was eating. He was allowed to beg at the table.
I did wonder weather he knew I didn't like him and would snap and it always made me feel uncomfortable having a dog around.

mustbemad17 · 19/12/2017 18:59

BSL (the stupid law that states because of the way a dog looks it will be more dangerous) has been in force for 25 years this year. It has not reduced dog bites or other incidents at all. It has however murdered thousands of family pets based on a set of measurements that can - and do - implicate a wide number of breed crosses.

In America, a large number of people are killed by guns each year. We don't blame the guns. There are not enough consequences for dickhead owners that think it is okay to treat their dog like crap & use it as a weapon. IMO that is the problem; even dog fighters who have their fighting dogs seized get a slap on the wrist. There's no deterrant & instead we kill off the dogs

ohfortuna · 19/12/2017 19:00

There's also a woman that I regularly see struggling to restrain a boisterous rottweiler

crazycatgal · 19/12/2017 19:01

@mustbemad17 Actually we do blame the guns. People have been calling for more gun restrictions for years in the US.

AngelsSins · 19/12/2017 19:01

ohfortuna but that applies to any large dog, not just bull breeds! And again, you are much more likely to be attacked by a man when out walking than a dog. Only 1% of dog attacks occur when a dog is offlead in a public place. It's a tiny, tiny risk.

papayasareyum · 19/12/2017 19:02

Yes, it does happen. It’s one of the main reasons I’ll only have small, lightweight dogs as pets. I wouldn’t have a very powerful, heavy dog with the capacity to overpower me

ohfortuna · 19/12/2017 19:04

murdered thousands of family pets
Animals can't be murdered
murderer refers to humans

mustbemad17 · 19/12/2017 19:04

JRT have been known to kill babies. They have crazy prey instinct & a crying baby can sound like a caught rat. Never see that paraded round the media.

Bigger cars have more potential to kill you if they hit you than smaller cars. We don't limit big cars based on their potential; we work on the basis that the person behind the wheel is going to be responsible. If they aren't, they are (hopefully) punished. All the assumptions about bigger dogs because of their potential basically stereotypes the owners too. 90% of bull owners i know are accutely aware of the rep of their dogs & work exceptionally hard to change that with well behaved, well mannered, controlled dogs.
Shame the same can't be said for some of the owners of other breeds that run riot round here 🙄

DiegoMadonna · 19/12/2017 19:05

But Diego is so feverishly banging the drum for her beloved pitbulls

I'm not feverish about anything, I'm just posting from a position of logic and fact, rather than irrationality and hearsay, something that many people are unable to do. That's why you're becoming emotional and I am not.

ohfortuna · 19/12/2017 19:05

Well I've never been attacked by a man
but I have been attacked by dog

mustbemad17 · 19/12/2017 19:06

Crazycat yet you still have crap gun laws. Every time something happens with a gun, the gunlovers manage to still legally keep hold of their guns.

Ohfort when you view your dog as part of the family, it is murder.

mustbemad17 · 19/12/2017 19:07

I've been attacked by both men & dogs. The irony? The dogs that have landed me in hospital have been small ratty little things (not a small dog lover in case you didn't realise). Have had one tumble with a mastiff & ended up bruised to buggary; no stitches required tho!

ohfortuna · 19/12/2017 19:08

No it isn't murder
Only humans can be murdered
Your dog is not human no matter how much you think it is

Greyhorses · 19/12/2017 19:10

Scaredey I actually work in the veterinary industry, although I have a massive interest in dog behaviour and so mainly work with the police and charities removing, assessing and sadly euthanising a lot of the dogs who have committed aggressive acts. Its not my main job but an area in which I'm interested in.

I suppose this is where I am biased but I do tend to find it's the same type of dogs most times. Not always however- last week we had a Boston terrier that had attacked and killed its companion. But for the most part sadly it tends to be the status type dogs, collies and a large amount of imported (Romanian typically) dogs who for mant different reasons bite and end up paying the ultimate price.

It's very sad. I own german shepherds which in themselves are a status type, although generally less so now. You can generally tell a badly bred, nervous owned by an idiot type a mile away. Mine has come from generations of family pets and has a temperament to die for but I would not be naive enough to tell people on the internet that no GSD has ever been at fault before and they are the perfect family dogs as I know that isn't the case.

If I was a bull breed lover I would be campanging to protect the breed and limit who could own one not reccomending them as nanny dogs or whatever other rubbish people come come up with to save the breeds reputation as I believe it's actually damaging it. These dogs are fantastic in the right hands but shouldn't be owned by anyone who hasn't a clue about dogs and how to keep them.

Sorry off on a tangent there, I hope the family finds some answers at some point Sad

mustbemad17 · 19/12/2017 19:10

Ohfortuna i'm not going to sit & argue semantics with you. Having somebody kill your dog for the way it looks is bollocks. Call that whatever you like

AngelsSins · 19/12/2017 19:13

ohfotuna again, in the US, Pitbulls have killed 66 people in 20 years. Meanwhile 2-3 women EVERY DAY are murdered by their partners. Presumably you let men in your life? There are so many far more dangerous things in this life than dogs.

ohfortuna · 19/12/2017 19:14

The Killing of a dog may be unjustified it may be upsetting to the owners of the dog but it is not murder
If we considered the killing of animals to be as bad as The Killing of humans we would all have to be vegetarians wouldn't we

mustbemad17 · 19/12/2017 19:14

Grey that makes me really sad to read about your experiences with Rommie dogs having to be euthanised 😔 People don't understand or appreciate the shit those guys have been through. And sadly some 'rescues' see ££ instead of animal welfare.

Your point re breed recommendation stands for all breeds though. You see it a lot on here; posts asking what dogs make great family pets. I see lots of recommendations for JRT, labs, spaniels...I personally wouldn't recommend them as family pets based on my own experiences. My experiences with bulls have been hugely positive - i know lots of bull breed PAT dogs that do school reading session, nursing homes, hospitals etc. The truth is just because one particular dog fits into one family, the same breed won't fit into other families.

crazycatgal · 19/12/2017 19:15

Over 50% of the dogs at my local animal shelter are staffies, most have been there for a long time because they're a strong breed and nobody knows what they have been used for and what sort of home they have come from. I don't blame people for not choosing to rehome them - I wouldn't want a strong muscular dog with an unknown history around children.

The fact that shelters are full of these dogs means that something needs to be done to control breeding and to make sure that dogs are going to decent homes. At the moment anyone can breed them and anyone can buy them.

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