Page 4 | To think ladies first has no place these days

Neiflette · 17/12/2017 23:35

Holding the door open for people regardless of sex = polite.
Holding the door open only for women, or making more of a show out of it when it's a woman/going to more effort = a bit sexist.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 17/12/2017 23:35

CheapSausagesAndSpam

When I was in a crowd/crush during the poll tax riot in London I was very grateful that a young man said it before picking me up and popping me over a fence to safety before climbing it himself.

It was too high for me and with no grips...he just "threw" me up it.

What a lovely story.

I think whoever reaches the door first opens it and stands back to let the other through is the polite way to do it. If one party is burdened with bags/children then obviously the other party opens it.

The anecdote above is an excellent example of good manners in action. I expect the "ladies first" comment was done with the aim of making CheapSausagesAndSpam act quickly and not be alarmed that a stranger was about to throw her over a fence. Generally I don't think "ladies first" is necessary but on this occasion it definitely was.

Nishky · 17/12/2017 23:36

Women who HATE chivalry and the 'ladies first' thing are the same type who take the piss out of people who have landlines, (because it's TWEE!) who take the piss out of women who take their husband's surname, and take the piss out of women who cry at sad parts in films. They probably hate Christmas and puppies, and Disney films too. And they rip the shit out of women who have a boyfriend or husband who showers them with gifts and flowers on valentines day, but are secretly bitterly jealous of them

Nope, sorry, took my husbands name, love Christmas and puppies and my husband is excellent at gift buying- I just hate the chivalry bit

MiraiDevant · 17/12/2017 23:42

Stop talking about the 1950s as some sort of shorthand for things you don't like. You have no real idea of what it was like then, of what women did or how people had to live.

(And how different was it from the 40s?? Or the 30s? or the 70s, or life currently in a different culture? Lazy and dismissive of women who had to deal with things that you will never have to deal with - I hope)

BurnTheBlackSuit · 17/12/2017 23:42

Manners is holding the door and saying "after you" and the other person saying "thank you". No need for sex to come into it.

abouttimeforanotherone · 17/12/2017 23:42

So, you have no answer for the actual question then, just drummed into you that "it's good manners"?
On the contrary, I was reading Cosmopolitan in the '70s and early '80s and was once a card-carrying member of the "I hate chivalry" brigade. I was into 'equality' and feminism before many of the posters on this thread were even born. These days I happen to quite like it when a man treats me with courtesy, consideration and politeness, even when it comes dressed as chivalry.

"Ladies First"? So it bloody well should be

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 17/12/2017 23:45

Women who HATE chivalry and the 'ladies first' thing are the same type who take the piss out of people who have landlines, (because it's TWEE!) who take the piss out of women who take their husband's surname, and take the piss out of women who cry at sad parts in films. They probably hate Christmas and puppies, and Disney films too. And they rip the shit out of women who have a boyfriend or husband who showers them with gifts and flowers on valentines day, but are secretly bitterly jealous of them

Blimey. I prefer that everyone is polite. I do hate Christmas and Disney films and neither my husband or I bother with Valentine's Day. He buys me wonderful birthday presents (as I do for him) as this is a day which is special and unique to me rather than to Hallmark cards.

I didn't take his surname as I already had a surname. I have a landline.

I've never come across anyone who "takes the piss" (an expression btw which I hate and which I think is crude and impolite) over changing names, crying at films and most bizarre of all, owning a landline because it is twee.

VerticalBlinds · 17/12/2017 23:46

I'm confused by the landlines thing.

More than the doors thing. I know where I'm at with the doors.

GetMeOutOfHerePlease · 17/12/2017 23:46

I always hold the door open for the person I’m with, same for going in doors first, I thought that was basic manner for everyone?

I didn’t watch the apprentice but I’d think a man who said “ladies first” to me odd, the holding of the door is (or should be) universal basic good manners, if a man makes it clear that he’s only opened the door for me becuase I’m a woman, I’d find it very odd, becuase surely it’s something polite women and men do for other women and men? Why the need to point it out instead of just holding a door open without a fuss?

Fwiw, I’ve not had a man use that expression on me in years, men hold doors open for me, but so do an equal amount of women, when I was late teens and early twenties, It was often accompanied with a top to bottom glance of my body by the bloke, hated it as I felt like he wanted more than a thank you, he wanted full eye contact and a full on smile and a teetering thank you, my just going through the door and saying thanks often got me called miserable and rude.

What is the point of pointing out you’re holding a door open for a woman? If it’s something you do for women and men, then why announce it to the women?

abouttimeforanotherone · 17/12/2017 23:49

Incidentally, I haven't heard anyone actually say "Ladies first" for years.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 17/12/2017 23:50

VerticalBlinds

I'm confused by the landlines thing.

More than the doors thing. I know where I'm at with the doors.

It risks an epic derail, but me too. "Twee" what is twee about having a landline? Do non landline people even have an opinion on landline owners?

GetMeOutOfHerePlease · 17/12/2017 23:58

I guess I’m saying that a man holding the door open for a woman isn’t a big deal, or isn’t anymore polite than a woman holding it open for a woman, or a man holding it open for a man.

Telling a woman you’re holding the door open for her because she’s a woman makes it look like it’s something you don’t for everyone, which isn’t good manners and turns into sexism. If you get annoyed that the woman doesn’t look greatful enough and looks back as she passes to smile as she says thanks, then maybe you’re not as well mannered as you think, otherwise a quick thanks would be more than enough?

I mean you, in a general term, not at anyone directly.

MiraiDevant · 18/12/2017 00:11

I don't get the landline either - I thought you more or less had to have one - or at least pay for the line - with a home broadband?? So what's the joke?

PugonToast · 18/12/2017 00:11

Hmmm...no strong feelings on this unless I am on a cruise-ship with my kids. When we hit an iceberg or summat and start the abandoning ship I think "Ladies and Children First!" is only proper and of utmost importance.

I like a bit of chivalry so long as it is just manners, respect and a helping hand and not implying I am thick or helpless.

Bloopbleep · 18/12/2017 00:14

I’m impatient and don’t give a shit what the comment is as long as I don’t have to bloody wait to get through a door.

Neiflette · 18/12/2017 00:21

I think the 'landline twee' comment is about another thread that's been on active tonight.

cannotmakemymindup · 18/12/2017 00:34

Love my Dh opening doors for me. However that maybe because he gets to do the push/pull thing incorrectly first rather than me .
Also some doors to restaurants etc are a nightmare to open with my short stature/wearing heels so again struggle avoided.
I do open doors for others though myself - first at a door, people with prams, walking sticks etc,. I just add my Dh gesture into the same good manners I would show others, plus I know he loves my bum so why shouldn't he get to look.
What is so wrong with kindness?

IvorBiggun · 18/12/2017 00:44

YANBU op. It’s sexist bollocks and has nothing to do with manners or holding doors open (which everyone should do regardless of whether they or the door approaching party have a penis or not). It was weird on The Apprentice tonight.

But also, anyone who has ever seen Julius Caesar knows you never go first and always do better to have the last word. So there

IvorBiggun · 18/12/2017 00:45

Down with chivalry and up with good manners.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/12/2017 00:48

Neiflette

I think the 'landline twee' comment is about another thread that's been on active tonight

Found it. One person said having a landline was twee and quite rightly got taken to task. Why there might be a correlation between not liking "ladies first" and thinking landlines are twee escapes me.

In the interests of full disclosure I am a cat person but puppies are cute.

PumpkinSquash · 18/12/2017 01:04

They've used it twice on the apprentice tonight, why? We aren't in the 50s anymore!

Not read all the replies, but basic manners. Really couldn't get worked up about it! Nice when someone holds a door open for you etc.

SheGotBetteDavisEyes · 18/12/2017 01:16

Find something important to get stressed about
Get a grip

Absolutely. OP, you must stop questioning why (some) men say 'ladies first' and hold the door for them. Just walk through the door. Say thank you.

There is literally no need to be mindful of those small, quiet, habitual things that oil the little cogs in the wheels of inequality.

It's happened for years. It's a nice thing. Just say thank you, nicely.

notangelinajolie · 18/12/2017 01:16

Rant alert.

I'd rather live in a world with 'manners' and land lines thank you veery much

What is it with some women? What the hell is wrong with a man holding a door open? Or a man saying 'ladies first'. I think it is nice and it is very sad that they don't know a gentleman when they meet one.

And just saying that without a land line I would not be able to make or receive phone calls from my home edge of a big city, I don't live in the middle of knowhere because my mobile signal is shite. And my Sky wouldn't work properly if I didn't have a land line because - shock horror, not everyone has cable broadband.

Rant over.

Bridezilla2be · 18/12/2017 01:18

Actually I’m shocked at how sexist the Apprentice has been against men this year! The two female contestants ogling the male models and asking them to show them their six packs - all good fun but imagine if it was the other way around (not the six packs though presumably!) we’d definitely be getting a close-up of Karen rolling her eyes! And what did the girls say in another episode, something about the ‘boys’ being incapable/needing their help

Them saying ladies first was just a cliched way of choosing who could call the coin toss, nothing more.

Battleax · 18/12/2017 01:23

I'm not going near that batshit crazy board again..

That's quite ill-mannered. What have you got against the feminism boards?