To think ladies first has no place these days

[Idreamofalandrover]

They've used it twice on the apprentice tonight, why? We aren't in the 50s anymore!

I am nice . And ..... good for some countries. My experience happened in the north of England.

Do people still do this? I’ve only either heard it said as a joke (usually as a set up for “no no, age before beauty” punchline).

Whoever gets to the door first opens it for the group. Then gives it a shove to keep it open for the next group while they go through themselves.

Actually in our workplace one of you swipes your id card, the other opens the door and holds it for the first person to go through.

I vaguely remember men leaping across the room to open doors whenever a woman looked like she might be thinking of leaving, but they always looked completely ridiculous doing it and I haven’t seen it in years.

"In some countries going into a restaurant is traditionally a situation where a man should go first to avoid all eyes being on his female companion. Another one is walking up the stairs for obvious reasons."

this is interesting! One of the things I got annoyed about with ex was that he would never let me go first to look after me but would often push me into a place ahead of him to deal with whatever happened - he had a form of social anxiety I think and struggled with strangers, but I found it fucking hard work to be on "making an entrance" duty ALL the time, especially with his bloody friends.

One of the things he used to do was be dissatisfied with things and ask me to deal with them. So if he didn't like a table we were given in a restaurant he would expect me to ask to be moved. Or with wider family and friends he would want to do things differently but instead of selling his idea to the group (or negotiating a compromise), he would complain in private to me and I was expected to deliver him the outcome he wanted.

This is all the opposite of unmacho behaviour - expecting a woman to speak up for you. And honestly I have no time for macho. But god I was sick to death of its opposite, where I felt like I was constantly being thrust forward to deal with stuff while someone lurked in the shadows

Men tend to hold open doors for me because they have good manners

What would you do if you arrived at the door first? Would you open it and hold it open for them? Or would you still wait for them to open it for you?

What makes it "good manners" to let a woman go first, other than some 50s throwback?
I'll take good manners and chivalry any day, thanks very much for asking. If someone is polite enough to let me go first, then I'm happy to accept their kind offer.

I like it. Chivalry is very important. A man who is not courteous and chivalrous with me, and who shoves in front of me, who doesn't open doors, who doesn't offer to buy me a drink, and who doesn't say 'ladies first' won't even get to first base with me.

Treat me like the lady I am ...

Or fuck off.

When I was in a crowd/crush during the poll tax riot in London I was very grateful that a young man said it before picking me up and popping me over a fence to safety before climbing it himself.

It was too high for me and with no grips...he just "threw" me up it.

Chivalry is not important. Chivalry is not about being courteous or polite as many people mistakenly believe.

I’m a big believer in whoever gets to the door first opens it and ushers through anyone with them first. Having a vagina doesn’t mean I can’t open a door. But if I’m holding a box of crap then I expect it. Likewise anyone with a pram through you go etc. But I wouldn’t be angry if someone says ladies first cos there’s more important things to worry about

Women who HATE chivalry and the 'ladies first' thing are the same type who take the piss out of people who have landlines, (because it's TWEE!) who take the piss out of women who take their husband's surname, and take the piss out of women who cry at sad parts in films. They probably hate Christmas and puppies, and Disney films too. And they rip the shit out of women who have a boyfriend or husband who showers them with gifts and flowers on valentines day, but are secretly bitterly jealous of them...

I agree, but if an older man holds the door open I do thank him. It's dying out anyway.

This sounds like you wouldn’t thank anyone else who does it.

I'll take good manners and chivalry any day, thanks very much for asking
So, you have no answer for the actual question then, just drummed in to you that “it’s good manners” 🙄

What would you do if you arrived at the door first? Would you open it and hold it open for them? Or would you still wait for them to open it for you?

Most men that I'm around regularly in "door opening scenarios" (DH, friends, work colleagues) do that thing where they slightly step ahead so they arrive first and since I'm expecting it I hang back to allow them.

I don't agree with ladies first. If I'm going through a door and someone is coming the other direction at the same time I will stop and let them pass, man or woman. That is good manners. Sometimes the other person does the same and indicates for me to come on through, so I do. That is good manners on their part. It's not a man/woman thing.

original perhaps you could answer why you think it's sexist?

I like it. Then again I like manners. My kids all hold doors, as do I. They say good morning to people, they give up their seats on buses.

I don't get pernickety about this shit.

Tippz I'm assuming you're being tongue in cheek, but just in case you're not...

I do hate chivalry
It would never occur to me to take the piss out of a landline. I don't see the relevance.
I took my husband's name when we married.
I've never taken the piss out of anyone who cries at films - man or woman.
I don't hate Christmas. I quite like it.
I'm ambivalent towards puppies.
I do despise Disney and everything about it.
I wouldn't rip the piss out of anyone over Valentine gifts/flowers. I'm not jealous of it either.

HTH...

This is interesting. It has a power thing as a poster has previously said.

I tend to hold the door open in the office if I get there first because why not. And as a little experiment. Most people say thanks and go through. However about 5% of men (guestimate ) will NOT. They just will not. They refuse. They say they can't. They say I MUST go first. It's weird. Interesting though as if there's nothing attached to it why do they care so much?

The other thing I always think is it's all well and good standing back and saying oh no ladies first in a nice office building where there are plenty of lifts and chairs and stuff. Do these men practice their scrupulous manners towards the laydees when for eg getting on a crowded tube at the end of the day? Of course not. ie they are only "chivalrous" when it means zero disadvantage to themselves in doing so. I would put money on these men feigning sleep when a pregnant woman gets on their commuter train to surrey.

I agree original, Karen in particular has said so many sexist things over the years.

It was about choosing first for a coin toss, how is that manners? Nothing physical involved.

Tippz

You have described me very well, (except the bit about jealousy, obv...)

We are either equal to men or we're not. If we are, we don't need patronising, outdated sexist crap like 'ladies first' which is intended to keep women in their subservient, compliant place.

I love a little chivalry and a man holding the door is a nice gesture.... You've got to get used to them looking at your arse and sizing you up but as long as they don't slap my arse I can't go for that. They will look, I am a sucker for being told I look nice and thanking them... AM I shallow or self absorbed... !

I like it. Then again I like manners. My kids all hold doors, as do I. They say good morning to people, they give up their seats on buses.

But that is good manners. It's not the same thing though. Bringing your children up to be considerate of others and being considerate of others yourself is, well, considerate. Having an expectation of someone's behaviour based on their biological sex - good or bad - is sexist.

I love it, and I expect to be treated in this way.

Men don't generally hold doors open for other men etc. It's a bit weird imo but not something I get upset over. I'm just as capable and any man of opening the door... And no, I'm not going first do you can check out my arse!

Tippz

No, they really aren't. I don't match anything on your list.

And I don't think they do it to get inside my knickers either (I am married and proudly) I feel for the majority it's a kind gesture.