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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sexual Assault **May be triggering**

161 replies

ItsFindersKeepers · 17/12/2017 21:15

NC for this but regular poster...

I may be flamed for saying this but AIBU to think that the term 'sexual assult' is a broad spectrum and that there's a HUGE difference between someone squeezing someone's bum and being penetrated by something other than a penis (as that would be rape)?

I'm not saying that someone squeezing a bum is okay in the slightest but I wouldn't want someone going to prison or convicted over it. Or do you believe their all as bad as each other and need locking up?

I was reading about the Todd from Corrie case and wondering what it was that he actually did. I personally don't think he deserves the sack for a drunken ass squeeze but anything more then yes.

I don't know, maybe it's my attitude that's what's wrong here. My arse was frequently squeezed on a night out and whilst I didn't like it and told them to fuck off, I wouldn't want them thrown in prison either.

OP posts:
MoistCantaloupe · 18/12/2017 08:31

CherryChasingDotMuncher It all reeks of MRA crap doesn't it, a girl of 15 years and 364 days old is a child and she must be protected at all costs.

Exactly - and this is what happens all the time to female celebrities as well i.e. Emma Watson turning 16. Once you're a 'woman' who aren't protected from bum squeezes anymore as it's not as 'perverted.' Fantastic.

SmileEachDay · 18/12/2017 08:33

I teach my child that no one has the right to touch them without the their permission.

I apply the same rule at the school where I teach .

I have the same expectation myself.

Bodily autonomy is the very least any of us should expect, yet so many think it’s ok. It’s completely normalised.

I have had the full range of unwanted touching, from creepy face stroking through grabbing my genitals and breasts all the way to rape.

What every single one of them had in common was that the perpetrator was a man who felt he had the right to touch my body.

They don’t.

Original poster
ItsFindersKeepers · 18/12/2017 08:41

I think it’s sad that you appear to think all men grab women inappropriately (suggesting everyone son does)

I said majority not all. In school about 70% of the boys in my year group would regular touch bums and in clubs I'd have my arse felt every time. I bet their mothers didn't think they'd do it either.

If your drunken, 18 yo son grabbed a woman's bum in the nightclub, would you expect him to be prosecuted with a sexual assault charge and be released from his training or job? Or would you then be thinking he was being stupid and the punishment is too harsh? Would you automatically assume that because your son is capable of a bum squeeze then he's now capable of rape? I highly doubt it.

OP posts:
CherryChasingDotMuncher · 18/12/2017 08:45

I said majority not all. In school about 70% of the boys in my year group would regular touch bums and in clubs I'd have my arse felt every time

I can well believe those numbers and that's exactly why it is a problem - women just can't escape harassment. Not even in school FFS.

If your drunken, 18 yo son grabbed a woman's bum in the nightclub, would you expect him to be prosecuted with a sexual assault charge and be released from his training or job?

Honestly, yes. I don't think the rules should change just because I have a son. Mine isn't even 1 yet but he'll be raised to respect people's bodies, but there's not much I can do about male privilege so TBH I can only hope he turns out to be a decent man respectful of women.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 18/12/2017 08:46

Oh and if my son thought his right to touch, and likely scare/intimidate a woman trumped her safety, I'd be furious and he'd get everything he deserved. I'd be very concerned about what else he'd do. I love him but the rules apply to all men.

Original poster
ItsFindersKeepers · 18/12/2017 08:50

The ignorance on MN is hilarious. The assumption that because they've taught right from wrong means their child isn't possibly capable of doing such things. I'm telling you now, that most teenage boys 18+ have felt a woman's arse. If you don't believe it, you're fucking delusional.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 18/12/2017 08:52

If your drunken, 18 yo son grabbed a woman's bum in the nightclub, would you expect him to be prosecuted with a sexual assault charge and be released from his training or job?

I think I would too. I’d be really concerned that he thought that was ok. I’d feel the same if it was my husband or my brother or dad - it’s unacceptable.

If it was your 18 year old son that was being grabbed in the bum/crotch at work by his male colleagues would you want them punished for it? Or if he regularly was groped by other men on a night out?

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 18/12/2017 08:52

I do believe it, I just said I did Hmm I also said that I can only hope my son won't be like that. I have no idea, he isn't even 1 yet. If he was I'd be mortified and disgusted.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that in 17 years time the world will be more favourable for women and that a 'cheeky squeeze' is regarded as wholly unacceptable. I may be cynical but I doubt much will change.

MoistCantaloupe · 18/12/2017 08:53

Would you automatically assume that because your son is capable of a bum squeeze then he's now capable of rape? I highly doubt it.

In terms of your last statement, I didn't say that at all. I said I agree there is a spectrum and asked what your ideal solution to this is? I also mentioned that you seem to want to change this to protect men, rather than women, which is sad. If my son did touch a woman without consent, then I would want him to be punished. How else will it, or attitudes towards it, stop OP?

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 18/12/2017 08:55

The ignorance of some posters on MN is fucking tragic. And it’s not the ones who are trying to bring their sons up to respect women. It’s the ones who think so little of their own sex that they don’t believe they deserve to be respected, that it’s acceptable to be treated like a piece of meat laid on for a man’s pleasure.

SmileEachDay · 18/12/2017 08:59

The ignorance on MN is hilarious. The assumption that because they've taught right from wrong means their child isn't possibly capable of doing such things. I'm telling you now, that most teenage boys 18+ have felt a woman's arse. If you don't believe it, you're fucking delusional

That suggests that an inability to control themselves is somehow innate and can’t be changed? Is that what you think?

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 18/12/2017 08:59

What’s so sad is that when you talk about your experiences with the boys who were smacking bums or snapping thongs, you say they weren’t doing it to scare/intimidate/ assault you - you genuinely can’t see that they didn’t give a fuck how you felt at all. They didn’t care whether you felt scared, intimidated or assaulted.

MoistCantaloupe · 18/12/2017 09:00

This whole thread of thinking around "everyones son does it" is peculiar anyways. What's the point of that statement? That's it's less of an offensive because so many people do it?

ShatnersWig · 18/12/2017 09:04

OP obviously I can't speak for all men, but I can speak for myself. I have never felt a woman's arse in a club, pub, office, public transport. The only place I have ever felt a woman's arse is in their house or my house and we were in a relationship. Conversely, I have had my arse felt by women a few times in a club. I've never reported it because, a bit like the police officer upthread, I can't imagine anything being done about it. I do remember playing kiss chase in the playground when I was 6 (approaching 40 years ago) when both boys and girls happily played but then we thought nothing of it. None of us had any idea of sex.

The bottom line (forgive the pun) is that it is totally unacceptable for anyone of any gender to touch anyone else of any gender (choosing to say any and not either gender to cover all bases) without their permission or consent. It's not that difficult a concept.

Pumperthepumper · 18/12/2017 09:35

Shatner (and the PP wife of Policeman) would you have been more likely to report it had it been another man who grabbed you in the club, do you think? I hope that doesn’t sound goady, I genuinely am interested what the difference is.

Pumperthepumper · 18/12/2017 09:38

Sorry, I worded that badly - I’m interested to know if men being groped by strange women is as massive an issue as women being groped by strange men, ie is it as widespread? And if it is, why not report it?

ShatnersWig · 18/12/2017 10:35

Pumper Not at all goady. I think there's actually an interesting debate around all of this; the problem is often the language people use in the OPs that result in bunfights.

I don't think women groping men is anywhere near as widespread as the other way around. I also suspect women will rarely do anything more than a bum squeeze whereas these sorts of men will squeeze anything they can get their hands on.

Would I have reacted any differently had a man groped me? Never really thought about it. I suppose yes. I can't imagine a bouncer in a club (if I still went to clubs) would take a man seriously if he went and said "that woman assaulted me by squeezing my arse". Maybe I am doing bouncers a disservice there.

But then women have had to put up with nothing being done for thousands of years.

LeCroissant · 18/12/2017 10:38

Men are generally bigger and stronger than women, so a man invading a woman's personal space and touching her in a sexual way carries more of a threat than a woman doing it to a man. That said, I don't think women should do it either.

mirime · 18/12/2017 10:38

IME, My arse has only ever been grabbed in school by other boys (it was the norm for the boys to go around smacking bums and snapping thongs)

FFS, here's part of the problem right here - it shouldn't be 'the norm' for boys to act like that, it shouldn't be ignored or brushed aside and women and girls shouldn't accept it as inevitable.

And I'm not disagreeing that it happens, I had my bum pinched in school, hands slipping under my skirt, and so on but to me it's really not acceptable at all.

LeCroissant · 18/12/2017 10:50

I didn't realise at the time what a blessing it was to go to an all-girls secondary school. I got to learn and study without being assaulted. I never knew how unusual that was.

mirime · 18/12/2017 13:04

@LeCroissant my DH went to a boys school and was absolutely horrified when I told him how some of the boys behaved in my school.

christmasrage · 18/12/2017 13:08

The difference between the OP and pretty much everyone else isn't a lack of awareness of the problem.

It's whether we want to tolerate it or not. OP wants to tolerate it, which is fine when it is her body being touched. I don't want to tolerate it- my body is not to be touched.

SlickBubbles · 18/12/2017 13:20

I actually got a boy disciplined at work, I've just remembered.

I was 16. He was 16/17. I was working in McDonalds, sitting on a chair and counting waste. He came over and started rubbing my shoulders, like a massage. I complained to management, he was given a formal warning, and not allowed to approach me under any circumstances. He tried to downplay it of course.

This was in 1998.

christmasrage · 18/12/2017 13:21

I had an almost identical situation bubbles, I left my job rather than tackle it, as it was the owner of the coffee shop doing it. No other staff on at the same time.

Pumperthepumper · 18/12/2017 13:52

It's whether we want to tolerate it or not. OP wants to tolerate it, which is fine when it is her body being touched. I don't want to tolerate it- my body is not to be touched.

Yes, exactly this. And also the man doing the touching has no idea if the women wants it or not. To go ahead and do it anyway shows he doesn’t care.