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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sexual Assault **May be triggering**

161 replies

ItsFindersKeepers · 17/12/2017 21:15

NC for this but regular poster...

I may be flamed for saying this but AIBU to think that the term 'sexual assult' is a broad spectrum and that there's a HUGE difference between someone squeezing someone's bum and being penetrated by something other than a penis (as that would be rape)?

I'm not saying that someone squeezing a bum is okay in the slightest but I wouldn't want someone going to prison or convicted over it. Or do you believe their all as bad as each other and need locking up?

I was reading about the Todd from Corrie case and wondering what it was that he actually did. I personally don't think he deserves the sack for a drunken ass squeeze but anything more then yes.

I don't know, maybe it's my attitude that's what's wrong here. My arse was frequently squeezed on a night out and whilst I didn't like it and told them to fuck off, I wouldn't want them thrown in prison either.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 17/12/2017 23:12

P.S Many females I meet, I squeeze their bum and visa versa. I don't ask first, nore do they. I would hope to not go to prison under the umbrella term sexual assault
If they penetrated me with an object, yes they should go to prison. Not for a bum squeeze... otherwise I'd be locked up a long time ago hmm

What does this even mean? Why are you squeezing the bottoms of females you meet? Under what circumstance are you meeting these females?

Naillig222 · 17/12/2017 23:13

My husband is a policeman and he was clearing a bar recently and a girl grabbed his bum. He said if a man had done it to a female officer it would have been taken seriously but that he’d probably be laughed at if he said he was sexually assaulted.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 17/12/2017 23:13

So is a crotch grab acceptable? If it isn't then what makes it different to a bum grab?

Original poster
ItsFindersKeepers · 17/12/2017 23:14

It is hard to draw a line. I agree.

OP posts:
PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 17/12/2017 23:15

He said if a man had done it to a female officer it would have been taken seriously but that he’d probably be laughed at if he said he was sexually assaulted.

And what does your husband think about that?

frieda909 · 17/12/2017 23:15

I just don't think that getting my bum squeezed is a big deal. I'd sort it myself without going to the police.

It’s easy to say that but it isn’t always that simple. Often we say that we’d react in a certain way until it actually happens.

A man grabbed my crotch in a crowd when I was 16, on an important evening out with my parents. I froze and couldn’t do a thing. He just grinned and walked away. I was so upset and embarrassed afterwards that I couldn’t even bring myself to tell my parents what had just happened. I was a moody cow for the rest of the night and to this day they have no idea why. It’s so easy to underestimate the kind of impact that kind of incident can have, and it actually feels like a subtle form of victim blaming to suggest that someone should just be able to ‘sort it out’ by themselves.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 17/12/2017 23:15

It is hard to draw a line. I agree.

First of all, that doesn't answer my question.

Second of all, it is not hard. It is actually very simple.

PurpleDaisies · 17/12/2017 23:17

It is hard to draw a line. I agree.

It’s pretty simple.

Did the person tell you they wanted you to touch them? Yes-fine. No-not fine.

It’s not bloody rocket science.

BertyFlanter · 17/12/2017 23:22

This thread is really helping me tonight. I was flashed at last night and had my bum squeezed. I have to deal with it at work tomorrow morning and this thread is giving me all the resolve I need to sort it out properly.

LeCroissant · 17/12/2017 23:28

Good luck Berty.

OP it's very easy to draw a line - no touching strangers unless they've asked you to or you're trying to help them in some way. Three years olds understand that FFS!

Pumperthepumper · 17/12/2017 23:34

Best of luck Berty

SlickBubbles · 17/12/2017 23:35

Good luck Berty. You're incredibly strong to report it, and stand up to them

PurpleDaisies · 17/12/2017 23:38

You’re absolutely doing the right thing berty. Good luck. Flowers

Blueskyrain · 17/12/2017 23:52

Fore, context is important. A squeeze to the bum would freak me out if I were on public transport, or just generally going about life, but if I was on the dance floor if a busy club, then it wouldn't bother me. I'm not saying it's not as wrong, but one I'd expect more than the other. In the public transport situation I'd be far more likely to call the police, whereas in a club, I'm more likely to just tell them to get lost.

wtf2015 · 18/12/2017 00:06

My 15 year old daughter had a party - I watched her dancing with friends and putting her arms around a boy’s neck. He was a friend and he squeezed her bum. She didn’t notice, I asked her and she said so what? Sometimes I squeeze boys bums. That is not the same as a sexual assault when one is feeling attacked by a stranger or someone is a vulnerable victim and the accused is in a position of authority

christmasrage · 18/12/2017 07:48

I don't think I should need to tell someone not to squeeze my bum.

If I want to get physical with someone, I'll show them- maybe by touching them a few times, moving my body closer to theirs. If they reciprocate then it is ok to get handsy. If they don't, then keep your hands to yourself.

It really isn't that hard, and if in doubt, don't!

Women's bodies have been up for grabs for too long. Time's up.

Original poster
ItsFindersKeepers · 18/12/2017 07:58

IME, My arse has only ever been grabbed in school by other boys (it was the norm for the boys to go around smacking bums and snapping thongs) or in a nightclub on a night out. So IME these guys were only having a laugh or trying it on with me. They weren't doing it to scare/intimidate/assault me.

I've never experienced a random groping on public transport or in work so maybe that's why my opinion differs.

I do believe there's a difference between a chance on the dance floor and a sleaze bag on the tube. Neither is acceptable but there is a difference.

The drunken man on the dancefloor is probably not trying to 'attack' you where as the man on the tube probably is.

OP posts:
Flowerpot1234 · 18/12/2017 08:03

I agree, there is a spectrum and these offences should be processed acknowledging this spectrum and consequently in the punishment.
I disagree with a squeeze on the bum being referred to as something a man "can't resist"; this should still be a reported criminal offence.

christmasrage · 18/12/2017 08:11

Offering to buy you a drink, asking you to dance, asking for your number, telling you you're gorgeous... trying it on.
Grabbing your body... Sexual assault. The grabber doesn't know if it is ok with you until you react.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 18/12/2017 08:12

What kind of person, when they think 'sexual assault' they think 'oh poor men who only squeeze bums and get demonised'.

People can fuck off with their minimising.

People can also fuck off if they think a crotch grab is harmless. I expect the sexual offender Bruno Langley wouldn't be so happy if a man came and grabbed his crotch.

Sexual assaults and rape are nothing short of an epidemic. Conviction rates are woefully low. Rape culture is rife. What we need is these offenders having the book thrown at them, we need them to be shamed and we need to send the message to other men that even a grooe is NOT ok. The justice system needs to take a hard line. I couldn't give a fuck if that means some octopus handed creep goes to jail 'just' for grabbing some poor woman's arse. If it means he doesn't do it again, and puts other men off, then it can only be a good thing.

christmasrage · 18/12/2017 08:14

I would have liked to enjoy a night out without keeping a wary eye on who was behind me, giving a filthy look to the guy who tweaked my nipples when I was dancing with him, spilling my drink because of an unexpected pinch on the bum, navigating the room to avoid a guy who I already know is handsy. As a teen I tried to learn what it was about me that got me repeatedly groped- was I dancing too suggestively, flirting too much? I shouldn't have had to analyse my behaviour like that. I should have been able to lose myself in the music and dance without worrying.

I'm glad I'm old and fat and don't go to clubs.

MoistCantaloupe · 18/12/2017 08:15

I think it’s sad that you appear to think all men grab women inappropriately (suggesting everyone son does). Sexual assault is a spectrum as you rightly say-would you simply feel more comfortable with different term for different offences? But the need for this appear to be to protect the men who are doing it?

As a side note, a pedophile is someone who has sexual attraction/ involvement with prepubescent children - so general under 12. Not someone who sexual assaults 14-18 year olds.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 18/12/2017 08:19

Sorry I missed it, no I don't believe anyone has the right to touch any child for any reason. Of course not. But I don't think the two are comparable

I find this quite sad TBH. Women who'd fight to the end for their kids' bodily autonomy but don't believe they deserve the same level of respect.

Never underestimate the power of internalised misogyny

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 18/12/2017 08:22

So how old does a girl need to get for the guy to be a drunken idiot not a predatory paedophile then?

It all reeks of MRA crap doesn't it, a girl of 15 years and 364 days old is a child and she must be protected at all costs. The next day she's 'legal' and fair game for 'cheeky squeezes' (don't you just hate the minimised language BTW).

PinkyBlunder · 18/12/2017 08:25

It is hard to draw a line. I agree

Er nonit isnt. Crotch grabbing, bum squeezing, boob cupping all the way to penetration is sexual assault if you didn’t give permission. There is just varying degrees of sexual assault - it’s a spectrum and that’s reflected in the punishment.

The line is, you didn’t give permission

So yeah YABU because attitudes like yours actually minimise sexual assault and enable it to continue as an every day practice.