Christmas cards and women changing their name upon marriage!

[mulledoverwine]

I am recently married and did not change my name.

I have been writing out my Christmas cards tonight and have realised that only 1 other woman I am posting to hasn't changed their name and another double barrelled theirs (he didn't).

Everyone else is Mr & Mrs {His Initial} Patriarchy.

I am quite enraged by it all! I have become more feminist as I have got older as I have started to question the norm more. Especially since reading the feminist boards on here.

I just want to shake every woman who changes their name!!

I am going to get slaughtered here aren't I??

I refuse to use the husbands initial when writing the address - will just write Mr and Mrs ‘Surname’ or Family ‘Surname’. Never used to be like this and am often referred to as Miss Manners in my family but am really anti it now. Move over Debrettes , I’m having a mid life feminist moment.

What puzzles me is - what is your legal name? When you marry you sign the register, and your marriage certificate with your single name. A lot of women choose to take their husband's name and that then appears on all legal documents but - is it your legal name? You can decide not to change it so how does taking your husband's name make it become legal?

Ye gods! Where did this 'Feminism is about choice' mantra come from?

Feminism is about removing patriarchal oppression of women.

Part of that oppression has been symbolised by women adopting their husband's name. Sure, we're now at a point in the UK where most women aren't literally oppressed in their marriage, and are not viewed as property by their husbands (yay!). But the practice of giving up your original surname is still biased towards men; men get to keep something that women give up.

Some women have specfic reasons, separate from patriachal rules, to desire a change of name.

Most don't.

Whilst the overwhelming trend is to change your name, doing so is not a neutral choice; choosing something that everyone expects you to choose is not quite the same as choosing something entirely freely.

Ye gods! Where did this 'Feminism is about choice' mantra come from?

I think it is a confusion with the "woman's right to choose" slogan from the abortion rights campaigns.

I couldn't wait to change my name when I got married. I had a terrible lengthy maiden name which was the surname of my biological father who left my mum when she was pregnant with me, never cared for me, let alone paid up. My mum kept his name after the divorce because she was a teacher and didn't want the whole school talking about her situation. As you can imagine it was pretty traumatic for her being left alone with the baby which they both really wanted after eight years of marriage. I totally understand that she didn't want to answer to the whole school about this deeply personal turn of events in the late seventies. But it meant I was also stuck with the name of this useless man...until I got married. I have a nice short name now and for me it was an act of true liberation. In other circumstances I probably would have kept a half - decent maiden name by a half - decent father when getting married but I didn't have that privilege. So no judgement, please. I did what my mum ought to have had the freedom to do forty years ago.

I did not change my name as I just didn’t feel I should have too, our daughter is double barrelled. It’s just a name.

I honestly don't know what business that is of yours?

Read the thread and then you'll know, it's been explained at least half a dozen times.

@reallyanotherone

He didn't want to change his name, I wanted to change mine, and we couldn't have children. (We adopted).

As I said, I'm traditional. A marriage - to me - is something that is hard to get out of, you don't just walk away, you fix problems and you stay together, so for me, marriage was that ultimate lifelong commitment.

And before you say it, yes I do believe in divorce, but for the right reasons. There are only four things that would push me for divorce.

But I also believe in living together before marriage. Which is a good thing considering I walked away from my first house because my partner at that time was handy with his fists.

But then I also believe in marriage before kids. These are my personal beliefs, there's no way I would force them on others and there's no way I'd choose friends based on them.

What puzzles me is - what is your legal name?

My understanding is a married woman can legally use either her own name or her husband's surname under common law. So to change it on bank accounts or passport or other accounts/places all she needs to do is forward a copy of her marriage certificate and tell them she is now using her husband's surname.

If a man decides to take his wife's surname, he has to execute a deed poll as far as I know. Which says everything about the historical and societal positioning of this choice. It is rarely a question of a new family deciding together on a family name.

I have to say I am really puzzled by the posts that equate taking a husband's name with a greater level of commitment and belief in marriage. I am 25 years married and married in a country that did not have any divorce laws at the time - you only got one shot at marriage - talk about traditional and committed. I didn't change my name and it didn't occur to me or my husband for a second that this was in any way a barometer of our commitment to each other.

Katherine your legal name is just the one you use. You can use whatever name and title you like, and you have a legal right to it provided you're not doing so for the purposes of deceit.

So if you take your FILs name when you get married, it becomes your legal name as soon as you start using it. In just the same way it would be if you took it before the wedding, or 20 years after, or if you started calling yourself Bobby Charlton.

TheGoldenBowl, are you saying that women shouldn't have the right to choose then? So women should have the right to choose what happens to their body, but they shouldn't have the right to choose to adopt their DH's name if they wish to??

You want to free women from oppression to patriarchy (and this is absolutely right, don't get me wrong), but you want them instead to be oppressed by the rules of the sisterhood!!

Tongue in cheek here, but that comment did sound ridiculous to me.

Not actually true pallisers. Nobody legally needs a deed poll. A man can change his surname on marriage, or indeed any other time, just as much as a woman. In British law you can call yourself whatever you like a long as you're not doing so for the purposes of deception. No change of name deed necessary.

That said, banks etc increasingly like to see some kind of paper trail. There's no legal requirement for them to do so, but it's what they like. They tend to recognise marriage certificates as proof of a name change for women whereas there isn't really an equivalent for men. Plus, this is an area of law where, possibly more than any other, people seem to enjoy misunderstanding and just plain inventing things. So a man wanting to change his name on marriage, in fact anyone who isn't a newly married woman wanting to do it, may well find that in practical terms they need a deed poll or similar to deal with institutions. But that's not because of the law. It's because of computer says no and fuckwits.

Ah I love tradition. No rights, no respect, tradition it's so lovely.

Oh it's so nice to do things the old fashioned way. I'm that kind of girl. No financial security, being a possession passed around by men.

I just like to keep the peace and make people happy and if that means I loose my name and who I am - I don't care. I love my husband.

You feminists are such meanies making us face up to the decisions we made. Well boo to you are your societal norms I just like his name better. It sounds good.

Mean feminists bossing me around when I only want to be bossed around by men.

Or you could just grow the fuck up.

@reallyanotherone

The commitment he made, was letting me take his name.

Oh wait, now you're going to turn that into some kind of crap where I'm not in control of my life. Well let me spell it out to you:

Bio father's surname was ripped away from me when mother remarried and stepfather adopted me, so I had no choice in my first two surnames.

When I met my husband, I wanted to take his surname and he wanted to give his surname to me. There was a whole lot of family arguing about the wedding, (and the man) which resulted in talk of changing my name by deed pole. But no, we decided to do it the right way.

21 years later, my family have gone, either died or in the case of my mother, disowned me, but my husband and I are still together.

*IsaSchmisa,
*
'RainyApril who makes these websites correct, where do they derive their authority from? '

Well yes, but then you could say that about anything, particularly about any conventional use of the English language, couldn't you?

I also think you're wasting your time addressing me, given that I completely agree that it's outdated and never took my xh's name. I only came on to explain why I address envelopes to married couples who have chosen to share a surname in the way that I do, to answer the op.

Lizzie48

I know you were being tongue in cheek but how many times in one thread do posters have to say no one is forcing a decision on you. We are just pointing out the decision to change your name is not a feminist decision.

No one has said or suggested the right to choose should be removed. Why would you suggest that?

He didn't want to change his name

But then using your argument, surely that shows his lack of commitment?

If changing your name, as you say, shows your commitment to sharing your life together, why wouldn't he consider it? Was he not as committed to the marriage as you?

@Moussemoose

You think I'm a possession passed around by men because I like tradition?

How rude.

Lizzie

No. You've misunderstood. I'm saying that the definition of feminism is not 'choice'.

You can choose to stand up as a mark of respect every time your husband enters a room, to call him "My lord" and eat the scraps from his table... All your choice. Just not feminist choices, really

I'm not advocating telling any women what to do. I'm talking about how we describe those choices.

So feminism is not about women making their own decisions? Hmmm so women just get told what they !should' do by some other group rather than men.... Hardly a victory.....
I appreciate the argument that name changing is 'expected' by a patriarchal society but condemning those who 'conform' seems pretty wrong to me too. Being a SAHM is also a patriarchal expectation but does that make those who choose to do so traitors to feminism? To me it means they've made their own 'choice' which is the sort of feminism I can appreciate. I chose to change my name, my husband chose to be a SATD.

Moose re- your last post. It's because my husband does respect me, that I respected him enough to take his name. I would not take the name of any old tosser. This is the whole point.

I would not want him to have a different name to his own children. That would feel weird to me.

@reallyanotherone his choice, just like mine was my choice.

Just because that's how I chose to make the commitment, doesn't mean he had to choose the same way to make a commitment.

Why is everyone so set on giving women the right to choose but then arguing about those choices?

We made the decisions that were right for us, and that are still right for us, just like you made your decisions for yourselves. Doesn't mean that any of us are wrong.

I don't think I'm wasting my time addressing you RainyApril since I'm interested in your contention that it's correct etiquette. My own view is that it's not possible to state it with the level of certainty you have, and I'd differentiate etiquette even from use of language since we do at least have things like the Oxford and Cambridge English Dictionaries. They're not definitive either of course, but there isn't a body or institution dealing with the use of titles with even that level of gravitas or authority.

FaveNumberIs2

I assume you like tradition. Therefore you understand tradition. Therefore you know that names indicate ownership. Therefore you realise that traditionally changing your name was a change of ownership. Legally a married women's property and rights became her husbands - this was the law traditionally.

Traditionally when a woman married she was given away by her father to her husband. Rather like a possession. All the women's possessions were passed to her husband from her father. So she changed her name because she was his possession as were all her possessions.

That is the tradition I was referring to. No so much rude as historically accurate.