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Original poster

Christmas cards and women changing their name upon marriage!

950 replies

mulledoverwine · 15/12/2017 22:17

I am recently married and did not change my name.

I have been writing out my Christmas cards tonight and have realised that only 1 other woman I am posting to hasn't changed their name and another double barrelled theirs (he didn't).

Everyone else is Mr & Mrs {His Initial} Patriarchy.

I am quite enraged by it all! I have become more feminist as I have got older as I have started to question the norm Hmm more. Especially since reading the feminist boards on here.

I just want to shake every woman who changes their name!!

I am going to get slaughtered here aren't I??

OP posts:
user1495222250 · 17/12/2017 12:27

Surely, part of feminism is about women having choices in their lives, but here you are saying that those who do want to take their husband's name are wrong. It's a bit hypocritical of you, isn't it.

TrojansAreSmegheads · 17/12/2017 12:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OllyBJolly · 17/12/2017 12:41

Surely, part of feminism is about women having choices in their lives, but here you are saying that those who do want to take their husband's name are wrong. It's a bit hypocritical of you, isn't it

I don't agree feminism is all about individual choices. For me, it's about women having equal standing, having equal presence in personal, social, business and political life unfettered by prejudice. Essentially, it's about dismantling the social construct of patriarchy.

If a woman chooses to perpetuate that patriarchy, I won't shake her, but I would hope to be able to have a reasonable debate about where that choice fits with her feminism.

ringle · 17/12/2017 13:02

Flowers TrojansAreSmegheads

ringle · 17/12/2017 13:07

Trojan, I didn't change mine for the mirror image reason: it was about accepting myself as ok just as I was. Not thinking of marriage as an escape from the past.

Dh's sister (who was depressed in those days) made a bitchy remark about me keeping my name because of dh's cousin's wife having the same forename as me. She had v low self esteem at the time.

LoniceraJaponica · 17/12/2017 13:19

"I don't agree feminism is all about individual choices. For me, it's about women having equal standing, having equal presence in personal, social, business and political life unfettered by prejudice. Essentially, it's about dismantling the social construct of patriarchy"

So instead of having men telling us what to do we have the militant branch of feminists instead Confused

VladmirsPoutine · 17/12/2017 13:30

Lonicera The counter argument to your point is going to centre along the lines that patriarchy has really done a number on many women by corrupting perceptions of feminism. It's been rendered as a hysterical, militant and belligerent movement. Which therefore maintains the status quo of patriarchal institutional power and therefore maintains its hold on women's rights, voices and progression.

PoorYorick · 17/12/2017 13:41

If my husband had been as insulting, patronising, hypocritical, prescriptive and pompous as some of the posters on here, I would never have married him, let alone taken his name.

LoniceraJaponica · 17/12/2017 13:57

um, yes OK

RainyApril · 17/12/2017 15:21

PrettyBird, yes it is, like using 'yours sincerely' or 'yours faithfully' in letters correctly, there is a correct way to address an invitation or card to a married couple.

Unless I've been told otherwise, after which of course it would be rude, I assume that the standard form of address is in use.

Just to be clear - if I notice that a married woman has kept her maiden name, or that the husband has taken the wife's name, or that they have both taken a third name, then I use that, obviously.

ringle · 17/12/2017 15:46

the default has changed though.

my elderly aunt has sent us a card with what she was educated into learning was the correct form "Mr and Mrs hisname hisname". She means no harm, it's what was the default in the 1940s and early 50s.

The default changes all the time, some of us think it would be nice if the default was a bit more woman-centred but there are plenty of other battles to fight, as people have said.

RainyApril · 17/12/2017 16:04

Fashion might be changing, and there might be people pushing for change for excellent reasons, but the correct formal address of a married couple, when the wife has taken her husband's surname, has not currently changed.

I'm not trying to be pedantic. I'll address my cards the way the recipient would like me to address them, i certainly don't want to annoy or offend anyone, but if they are married and share a surname - unless I've been told or become aware of the fact that they have another preference - I'll use the correct formal address.

That was my only point to op - the people angering her by addressing her cards and letters incorrectly may, like me, be unaware that she does not use her husband's name.

ringle · 17/12/2017 16:10

when you say "correct" you mean "what I was taught to be correct at primary school." nothing more.

RainyApril · 17/12/2017 16:28

And on every etiquette website, English grammar website, 'how to' website I've looked at today.

TheGoldenBowl · 17/12/2017 16:44

I've now read the whole thread and am more depressed than ever about the general understanding of feminism Sad

I took my husband's name for ease. It wasn't a very feminist thing to do- but it was 12 years ago and I didn't think about feminist very much in those days. Now, I can fully accept that I did not advance feminism by my choice; I don't feel the need to get all defensive about it, and to try and pretend that because I gladly chose it, that somehow makes it a feminist choice Hmm

Similarly, I am aware that, due to the messages I received in childhood (from friends, media etc) I carry round with me deeply unfeminist ideas about how I should look. They are deeply ingrained, and contributed to issues I've had about my weight and diet. I know on an intellectual level that I should have the freedom to look how I like, and not worry a bit obsessively about my figure- but the damage is done. Society gets to us.

That's not to say that all of us are being controlled by the same exact pressures all the time. But we would be blind not to see the trends.

I believe the individual women who explain their specfic reasons for taking their husband's name; not all women will have done it due to patriarchal pressure.

But you'd have to be spectacularly bloody-minded to argue that it's just a coincidence that so many more women choose their husbands' names than vice versa! They're not all doing it for your special patriarchy-free reasons!!

It's pointless to list the individual times you've seen men take their wives' names; we know it does happen. But look at the statistics!

It's a battle worth having. Names matter. It's weird how many posters won't see that.

ConstanceAndTheElephant · 17/12/2017 17:28

Yeah, cos keeping your father’s name is such a blow to the patriarchy.

IsaSchmisa · 17/12/2017 17:36

Logic fail. If my name isn't mine because my dad had it first, by the same principle it isn't his either. As has been explained about a dozen times now.

LostaraYil · 17/12/2017 17:38

I'm not even married married and we get cards addressed to mr and Mrs Hisfirstname Hissurname! Doesn't bother me though, I find it quite funny!

Someonessnackbitch · 17/12/2017 17:38

You won’t get slaughtered, most will agree with you. But on the other hand it’s their choice and not your place to comment. I will probably change my name when I marry and that will be my choice and will be livid at anyone who questions MY choice. We live in a society which is quite outdated. 2017 is based on the day Jesus was born.

GoReylo · 17/12/2017 17:40

I wouldn't mark Christmas cards with Mr and Mrs His Initial. I always send them to Terry and June Smith, or June and Terry Smith if she's my primary friend.

sandelf · 17/12/2017 17:42

I'm a much older generation and changed my name - it just seemed no choice then. BUT I do regret it from the fact I am invisible to my 'lost' early life friends - and most of them to me. And it sort of negates that part of my life before marriage - which is a loss to me. - Marrying today I would choose to knit the two somehow - probably double barrel it. Marriage is a joining of lives not wiping out one party's previous existence.

Lellikelly26 · 17/12/2017 17:49

I changed my name as it was symbolic for me. I had a horrendous childhood and it symbolised a new time in my life.
From the feminist point of view, actually what a changing your name to your husband’s symbolises is losing your own identity. I think that women’s rights around the world are appalling and we really shouldn’t go along with this outdated practice.
Misogyny is so pervasive that most of us accept it without question so OP I do not think you are unreasonable

Megs4x3 · 17/12/2017 17:55

I've known number of men who have changed their names for various reasons and believe me they got a lot more flak than women get from not changing their names. It always unsettles people when someone bucks a trend or convention, even if we like to wrap it up with explanations of patriarchy or feminism. What people call themselves is really their own business, and with so many variables it's a bit pointless to fret when people get our own names incorrect. A polite correction is all that's needed.

IsaSchmisa · 17/12/2017 17:55

If my husband had been as insulting, patronising, hypocritical, prescriptive and pompous as some of the posters on here, I would never have married him, let alone taken his name.

They no doubt care as much as you will when I tell you I'd never have married anyone stupid and unthinking enough to believe his name was his own whereas mine was my father's.

RainyApril who makes these websites correct, where do they derive their authority from?

The problem you have with this argument is that etiquette isn't like papal infallibility. There isn't one obvious, clear, winning source for adherents. You can make all the claims you like about what's correct and whether that has changed, but when it comes down to it, you've no definitive evidence for that. By all means just say it's a traditional form you were taught and in the absence of any other you like using it, but any more than that and you're going to struggle.

reallyanotherone · 17/12/2017 18:03

I like having a different name to my kids.

I like that my name doesn’t define my role as wife and mother, it separates me from that.

I like that when i’m introduced to someone i don’t get asked if i’m so and so’s mum.

I like that I can’t be easily linked to my husband or kids on social media. Unless people know us both there is no reason to need to know that I am married, or who I’m married to.

My name also clearly reflects my ethnic origin.

Personally I didn’t see any positive to changing my name.