Christmas cards and women changing their name upon marriage!

[mulledoverwine]

I am recently married and did not change my name.

I have been writing out my Christmas cards tonight and have realised that only 1 other woman I am posting to hasn't changed their name and another double barrelled theirs (he didn't).

Everyone else is Mr & Mrs {His Initial} Patriarchy.

I am quite enraged by it all! I have become more feminist as I have got older as I have started to question the norm more. Especially since reading the feminist boards on here.

I just want to shake every woman who changes their name!!

I am going to get slaughtered here aren't I??

Emilychambers
Ok so do you think there is zero societal expectation or pressure on women to change their name?

YABU to get enraged by it when you have only recently got married and have admitted to only becoming more feminist as you've got older. Many married women might well look back and think that if they got married now they would keep their name.
The important thing is that women have the choice and that keeping your name us an increasingly accepted thing to do.

itsbetter in answer to your question why do more than 50% or women take their husbands names:

I think a better question is why do more than 50% of women who are aware that this is a feminist issue take their husbands names. Again I'll say it is not for any of us to question that decision or demand justification, but it would seem tradition often trumps ideology in this case. It appears we all have a way to go on prioritising feminism above all things, but again I'd question whether it's our right to demand that commitment from women, or whether the very nature of feminism dictates that our freedom to choose trumps all.

Just for reference also, my DH and I had a lengthy discussion about name changing before we were married. He was more than willing to take my name, but we both preferred his. My name sounds like a day of the week and I've been lightly bullied for it my whole life, his last name is lovely and goes well with my first name. For us, it was a joint decision and I believe that is the truly feminist solution to this problem, that there is at the very least an open discussion between couples, and that that becomes the norm.

But WHY do they choose to? That’s the question I’m asking

I can only answer why I chose to. We sat down and have a conversation that went a bit like this

Me: what surname we using?
DH: don't know, mine?
Me: why yours? I quite like mine
DH: we could double barrel?
Me: I don't like double barrel, it's a bit wanky

We then tried double barrel both ways, my name with his, his name with mine

Me: I actually quite like yours
DH use mine then, not really arsed it's up to you

So I went for his.

I can't answer for every other woman. In the world though, no one can.

I chose to change my name. My choice. I'd do it again. My surname was always one I had to spell, my married surname isn't. And I wanted to have a family and knew I wanted us to all have the same surname.

I chose to get married but I wasn't 'given away.' No one walked me down the aisle and passed me over. Marriage has a lot of legal securities attached to it, plus I did actually want to get married as a concept too.

However I have never been Mrs [dh initial] Surname. My own initial is always used even when people address us as a couple. In the past that form was used more, I think that is much less so these days.

MoosseMoosse

Actually I did double barrel my name for a long time on Facebook. I stopped doing this when flashbacks from my abusive childhood forced me to face up to what happened (I've now been diagnosed with PTSD, as has my DSis). That's when I developed a loathing for my maiden name, previously my loathing was towards my first name, which I don't use as I have explained.

So the decision not to double barrel my name on Facebook was actually a positive decision.

My DDs are very attached to their surname, being adopted makes it very meaningful to them, so it might very well be different for them when they get married. And I will encourage them to consider double barrelling as I do like it in principle.

Women grow up with the expectation they will change their name. Their mums do it, relatives get married and do it, from a very young age they are aware of it.

It doesn’t even occur to men. It’s not something men do. They might as well plan what sanitary protection they would prefer if they were to menstruate.

So when it comes to this dicussion where women “decide” they like the mans name better, or “choose” to use the mans as the family name, subconsiously the decision was made years and years ago.

When the question comes up, the man is thinking “of course we’ll use my name”, and the woman already knows she will be expected to change her name. The man changing his name isn’t going to happen, so the “choice” in reality is to keep different names or change to the mans.

Ok so do you think there is zero societal expectation or pressure on women to change their name?

I'm not daft, I'm aware that there are social expectations of people to do so.

But I am also able to realise that every single woman in the world who changes their name after marriage isn't doing it because of social pressure or expectation.

This is the problem I have.

I understand that you (I could be wrong but just using it as an example!) Didn't change your name and kept your own. I respect your choice. I don't think it's odd, I don't think it's weird, I certainly wouldn't presume to tell you you are breaking tradition and you shouldn't do it.

I've got a younger friend (22) she's getting married next year. I asked her what name she's using. She said she's taking his name as he wants the family name to carry on and she has brothers etc so she wants to do that for him. I said she doesn't have to, she can use whatever name she likes. No, she wants to take his name. Again, I wouldn't dream of telling her that she's letting other woman down by doing this. She isn't stupid.

However, try being the person who changed their name whose coming up against a feminist who isn't prepared to accept that I chose to change my name, who constantly badgers you for doing so, who constantly tells you it's embarrassing as I'm personally setting woman back because I'm not breaking tradition, that I'm paving the way for men to continue to dominate me etc etc.

There's absolutely no reference to my right to choice, it appears that all name changers are ignorant, wrong and whatever other demeaning word is chosen.

I totally get that some don't know that you can pick a whole new name or give the children your name etc and when ever this comes up on my day to day life I always mention it as an available choice. Some didn't realise and consider it, some didn't realise and still choose to change and some know and don't change.

And I respect each and every one.

I once sat in on a lecture at a 6th form college in which the speaker asked the auditorium to raise their hands if they considered themselves to be a feminist. Hardly any of them did; you know why? Because there's some woman somewhere telling them that they are 'doing it wrong'.

Interesting assumption that it's to do with feminist women's attitude to feminism, rather than those of men. Ie, the group with actual institutional power. Personally I'd be surprised if it didn't have anything to do with negative stereotyping of feminism from the male peer group. Incidentally, your t-shirt feminism comment is precisely the sort of telling feminists they're doing it wrong attitude that you seem to be decrying here.

It's also incorrect to say that a woman's name choice is none of your business: it is, for reasons already explained a lot in this thread.

Also RainyApril, if you think you're defaulting to the correct mode of address, you're sadly mistaken. There isn't really one any more. Makes a cba approach much more difficult!

YABU. My maiden surname is very common, especially in some parts of the world. DH's surname is a lot more unusual. Together they would have been unwieldy. We chose together to adopt his surname for our family, for various logistical reasons.

As it happens, DH and I share an initial. So Mr and Mrs X Unusual-Surname isn't a problem for us. However, on the one single occasional that a hotel that I had done all the arrangement for addressed a letter to Mr and Mrs Husband-Name Unusual-Surname, I kicked off at them and got an apology as well as a promise of the process being changed.

I am so so grateful to previous generations who created the choice for me to make.

@rainyapril - it is not "correct etiquette" to address an envelope to someone who is not and has never been known by that name. It is just plain rude

What's more, it can even cause problems if you get the red card of doom from the postie for a parcel addressed to

Yes, we owe the Lucy Stoners a lot.

who is Lucy stoner?

This is reminding me of Trollope, of the days when your name really mattered

"My name, Mr Slope, is Mrs Bold!"
books.google.co.uk/books?id=lvN2CwAAQBAJ&pg=PT77&lpg=PT77&dq=my+name,+mr+slope,+is+Mrs+Bold&source=bl&ots=BK1zcfAVHE&sig=X0A24e0dmVjGUFq10RUIFwB47o4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi15pTl-JDYAhVlBMAKHejMA_YQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=my%20name%2C%20mr%20slope%2C%20is%20Mrs%20Bold&f=false

Keeping your maiden name isn't new, I'm mid 60s and a friend of mine did it because her surname was unusual and she wanted to keep it. When I was in my 20s I used to see a doctor at the family planning clinic, she had semi retired and was in her 80s. She was an amazing woman and to listen to her stories about travelling across Arabia by camel in the 1920s and 30s taking contraception to tribal women were fascinating. She used her maiden name professionally and her married name privately. Her life was a great example to young women, the fact that she used her husband's name in her private life seemed very unimportant to me.

My family are very into family trees. For me this tradition isn't taking away anything, and the fact I legally have the choice mean I have rights. I actively chose to be Mrs DH. We have 3 dds so although I have dh's name he's definitely not in charge in this house! Find something more outrageous to aim your anger at - like the pay gap!

* My issue is why it's always the woman?*

It isn't last 2 weddings I went to 1. Double barrelled (both did this) 2. Both changed their name completely to a totally different name. Your survey seems quite limited

Before mumsnet I didn't realise people addressed cards in such a way. I address them as 'To Jane and John' and then it avoid any confusion with surnames. I will also sign it off with mine and my husbands first names too...

Not even on the envelope Bonez? I though everyone knew this.

We have friends who aren't married so we just put their first names on the envelope with the address, but I write Mr and Mrs married name on the envelope (because none of my female friends kept their own name on being married)

@LoniceraJaponica Nope. Only 2 of my friends are married (to each other) and I put 'Jane & John' on the envelope and in the card. I might put something like 'The Edwards!' on the envelope for a laugh but I wouldn't address anything as Mr and Mrs - I find it a bit too formal (for me) seeing as they're my friends.

It might be a generational thing. Most of our friends and family are in their 50s and 60s or older and wouldn't expect me to write Fred and Wilma on the envelope. They would expect Mr and Mrs Flintstone (not Mr and Mrs F. Flintstone though )

We were taught how to address an envelope at primary school.

I'm 56 #justsaying

Very well could be a generation thing (I'm late 20s). I just wouldn't address my close friends as Mr and Mrs though and we don't send cards to people who aren't close friends. Even my husband's boss and his wife will receive one as 'Jack & Jill' if we were to send them one. Mr & Mrs Hill is way too formal for us.

Our friends and family are very scattered which is why we do send cards out at Christmas. It is a nice way of keeping in touch.