Christmas cards and women changing their name upon marriage!

[mulledoverwine]

I am recently married and did not change my name.

I have been writing out my Christmas cards tonight and have realised that only 1 other woman I am posting to hasn't changed their name and another double barrelled theirs (he didn't).

Everyone else is Mr & Mrs {His Initial} Patriarchy.

I am quite enraged by it all! I have become more feminist as I have got older as I have started to question the norm more. Especially since reading the feminist boards on here.

I just want to shake every woman who changes their name!!

I am going to get slaughtered here aren't I??

I hate that so many who change their name refuse to acknowledge that it has an impact beyond themselves. Do whatever you like, but don't get upset when people who are affected by it have a view on it

Why do you despise a name change so much?

Why have you inferred that?

I should be allowed to say if I don't agree with someone changing her name on marriage

There's a massive difference between saying you don't agree and giving reasons why then either engaging in a debate or leaving it alone if the name changer doesn't agree.

However, on here, it very much comes across (not necessarily on this post but others) as people only being interested in not changing the surname and refusing to accept that someone actually wants to do it and then to continue to try and brow beat them by insisting they are wrong for doing so, that it should either be keep your maiden name or get partner to drop their name, no in-between.

It comes across as though the OP on here believes that all women who change their name are unable to think for themselves, are in the wrong, need shaking to see sense, as though we haven't got a brain cell to think.

I find that attitude quite sad.

I don't think it's any of your business what other people chose to call themselves.

21st century means we can CHOOSE to change our name or not.

I changed mine. I couldn't care less if other people do. I don't really like post addressed to Mr & Mrs Hisinitial Surname but surely it's not something to get that upset about?

I don’t understand the desire to have the same surname as your children. I kept my surname when I married and it doesn’t bother me a jot that my son has his dad’s surname (It meant more to DH that DS had it).

My dad was furious when he found out that I was keeping my name ‘You should all have the same name’ even when I pointed out ‘Dad, I’m keeping YOUR name!’

I am so weary of telling people that I’ve kept my surname that I don’t bother any more, especially with DH’s family, who are all ex-Navy and v set in their ways.

soapboxqueen I am a bit confused as to why you have singled me out to that comment. Through out my responses I have said feminism is about the right to make choices. I have not stated that you should not be permitted to make choices that suits you. I feel as long as the choices we make are safe and sane for us and our family and not endangering others or making the assumption others should change to suit our needs, we should be respected for that.

I do find it interesting though that when I respond to a thread like this pointing out that I changed my surname due to my birth name being slang for penis in the UK It comes up as " why is it only women who has these issues" I made a sane and safe choice for me that works for me to become Mrs DH's surname Yes I wish to be respected for that choice it was mine to make and I made it. When my friend got married and kept her birth name and wished to be known as Miss Birth name I respected that and when I write to her I write Miss birthname .. My other friend who wished to be Ms birthname - ohname gets called that.. I respect the choices my friends make with regards to this. Personally I dont like Ms. I don't like the sound of it it doesn't sit right with me. I accept why others prefer it and I accept their reasoning for it I can acknowledge their reasoning in it. I simply prefer Mrs myself. I suspect my dd's will all choose to be Ms (my 14 year old already uses it) Her choice to make and I will respect that.

You can keep your birth name and be Mrs! I’m Mrs Lookingfor!

MargaretCavendish Sat 16-Dec-17 10:10:16

I'm getting quite annoyed with all the posts saying that feminism is all about supporting women doing whatever they feel like, because just making a choice is feminist. No it isn't. Some choices are anti-feminist choices. Women who picket outside abortion clinics, women who victim blame rape victims, women who teach their children rigid and hierarchical gender roles. These are all choices, but I am perfectly entitled to condemn them all as anti-feminist choices. Not everything a woman does is feminist; that would make the term meaningless. For me personally a woman changing her name doesn't fall into that category (though I do wish more women would at least consider keeping their own), but there's nothing non-feminist about OP criticising choices just because they're choices made by women. Women perpetuate patriarchy too!

I found your post interesting, MargaretCavendish. I can see what you're saying - and the point that MirriVan was making too. I posted my long post to reply to her without reading any other posts that came after.

I stopped short when I realised that I'd actually taken on my FIL name too because that's my husband's name. In my case, I've therefore swapped one bad fathers' name for another's! That is definitely something to think about. It would be difficult to change my name for professional reasons so that wouldn't be practical, but it's struck a chord and I acknowledge the point you've made.

I've heard before that feminism isn't about agreeing with or supporting any other women's choices and I can see that this is true. Does that extend though to actively trying to take those choices away from them - or by trying to educate and convince?

I'm asking because I do have an interest in feminism but I'm completely turned off by posters like the OP (who wanted to name-change to post) and Abbotswood who just appeared to me to be antagonistic. I'd never listen to anything they ever said if that's how they post. There are some brilliant posters on the subject who may not agree with anything that is posted but don't resort to point-scoring and ganging-up. They are always worth reading and surely that's the objective if we want change?

Why have you inferred that

Maybe despised was the wrong word. Sorry for any offence.

I kept my name as it would go against everything I believe in to change it. I love it when other women keep their name but figure they have their own reasons for changing if they do so. None of the reasons would ever persuade me though.

Gwenhwyfar, I got that OP wasn't advocating violence of any sort, but it's this insidious "You haven't swallowed the RED pill, take the RED pill, you led-by-the-nose women" thing that grates. Some posters have an ability to persuade and convince others to look at issues in more depth - others are just goady and couldn't care less.

I appreciate your post and as I said in a later one, I'm interested in feminism.

I don't think it's any of your business what other people chose to call themselves.

But it is, because it has an impact on her. Because titles do. That's how they work.

If you want to indicate something about yourself with a title, whether that's marital status or something else, you're reliant on other people playing along with that.

WhT are the impacts on other people if you change your name?

OK I'll phrase it differently. I would like to understand the reasons why women change their names upon marriage:

1. Because they want to have the same surname as their children - why?

DH and I have double-barrelled our names but kept our own names professionally.

I did not want to lose my surname but it was also very important to us for DC to share the same surname as us both. Why does this need so much explanation? I feel it’s perfectly natural to want this.

All surnames are about patriarchy. It's a tradition.

But we now have an opportunity to change that tradition. We have the opportunity to make those surnames ours. We have the opportunity to stop names being ownership to claim the name as our own. We have the opportunity to make a small step forward.

If we all took that small step then women would at last have names they could call their own. My name. My life. That's me that's who I am - not just tagged on to a man.

The OP wants shake people because they can't see this wider picture and only focus on themselves.

Names matter, words matter - that's why this thread is so long. Make your name and your daughters name belong to you not a man. Each individual can make a difference.

IsaSchmisa... I just read your post upthread about 'Ms' not being the equivalent of 'Mr' and I get it. I'm known as Lying Witch at work and the 'Mrs' only appears on my payslip or letters from the office. I don't actually like being called 'Mrs', I don't like 'Ms' either and would feel that I was making a point if I went back to 'Miss', which I would actually prefer.

I'm wondering why we need any of the titles at all? Do we really need to be able to denote whether somebody is male or female in general parlance?

It doesn't bug me that other women have changed their names, even though I chose not to.

What does bug me is friends - who know I haven't change my name (and we've been married nearly 20 years! ) - who every year send us Christmas cards addressed to "Mr & Mrs " I can even thole my parents' friends who do this - as they may not realise I have kept my very distinctive surname - but just don't get why friends of my generation - who know I am proud of my surname - insist on addressing the envelopes incorrectly and annoyingly

The one thing I really do despise is the way my MIL sends everything to Mr & Mrs DH's full initials and surname. It's like I don't exist except as an extension of him.

It is a convention which is very ingrained, though. I catch myself writing names that way after years of working as a secretary.

So basically Lonicera, there are women like me who would like a title equivalent to Mr. One that doesn't convey marital status and is also neutral, without baggage. I use Ms, but it isn't that. A quick look at a few Ms threads here will tell you that. I also don't want the fact that I didn't change my name on marriage to say anything more about me than my DHs decision to retain his says about him.

Unfortunately for me, I don't get to have that, because other women want to use their title to convey their marital status. Me choosing not to is something that other people have an opinion on. I would need you lot to stop doing that in much greater numbers, to get what I want. Just like those of you who use Mrs DHSurname need unmarried women not to use Mrs or to change their surname to your husband's (which they'd be entitled to do, perfectly legal, unless they're trying to commit fraud). If eg all adult women started using Mrs, or all teenagers, or all men over 77, it would start meaning something different to what it does now.

The same is true of other titles too, obv. If you call yourself Professor, you rely on other people knowing what that means and not calling themselves Professor if they're not one, in order for it to convey the meaning you want it to mean. If it suddenly got universally adopted by everyone with no qualifications, it would stop having the meaning it has now.

Now it's a free country, so people can do what they want. It's just that they're wrong when they say the decision doesn't concern anyone else.

My great uncle changed his name when he married in I think the early 60s. I am quite happy to have changed my name when I got married, my husband has never tried to access as if he owns me, we did discuss double barrelling our names but as both can be first name,mine especially is more common in the states, it just sounded like a jazz musician

don't get why friends of my generation - who know I am proud of my surname - insist on addressing the envelopes incorrectly and annoyingly

Because they believe that that is your "real" name because you got married. Also they're addressing all their cards in that format and can't get their brain to do anything else.

If my partner and I get married I'll be keeping my maiden name professionally and change it for everything else.

Great post MargaretCavendish. All these reasons given for a woman changing her name on marriage sound like excuses to toe the party line to me. After thousands of years of patriarchy of course a woman's personal choices affect other women, the question is how much we care about those effects.

There's someone on here who kept her own name when she got married, then her husband took hers after they divorced for some reason, and he remarried and his new wife took her name that was now his. It's one of the most weirdly marvellous stories I've ever heard.

I don't see any reason why it changing names should be an issue. I guess everyone is entitled to be called for what name they want so long as they don't step on anybod's rights, right? :)