Christmas cards and women changing their name upon marriage!

[mulledoverwine]

I am recently married and did not change my name.

I have been writing out my Christmas cards tonight and have realised that only 1 other woman I am posting to hasn't changed their name and another double barrelled theirs (he didn't).

Everyone else is Mr & Mrs {His Initial} Patriarchy.

I am quite enraged by it all! I have become more feminist as I have got older as I have started to question the norm more. Especially since reading the feminist boards on here.

I just want to shake every woman who changes their name!!

I am going to get slaughtered here aren't I??

Why does there have to be a reason?

Op MYOB and stop judging others. If you don’t want to be married get divorced.

ShowMe has you analysed right I think.

Great post MargaretCavendish. All these reasons given for a woman changing her name on marriage sound like excuses to toe the party line to me. After thousands of years of patriarchy of course a woman's personal choices affect other women, the question is how much we care about those effects.

That's harsh. My father was abusive, why would I want his name?? Quite a few posters have given that as a reason, how is that toeing the party line may I ask??

WrittenandGrown

Op MYOB and stop judging others

But as has been explained by pp it is our business. A decision to behave like a 'good girl' and do what you are told does impact on all women. Don't kid yourself.

You have the opportunity to strike a small blow for women to claim a name as your own. Your refusal to do this impacts on all women.

Lizzie48

You could have changed your name at 18 why wait for marriage.
You could have made a positive decision and chosen your own name rather than passively waiting for a man to save you with his name.

It was a choice.

Wow, the OP phrases things badly, but some of the vitriol towards her that is so vicious and personal is really sad to see.

It’s so weird that people don’t realise it is a decision made under the weight of a patriarchal society and tradition that influences you to do this. But of course it is! That’s fine, do what you like, but own it for what it is! All these ‘I had such a dreadful surname that my father gave me but coincidentally my DH happened to have a really charming one that is his alone as it was totally not just given to him by his father etc etc’.

I have my surname. My children have both our surnames. I have just moved to a place where this is extremely rare and ‘traditional’ values are very much celebrated. I feel intense disapproval, both implicit and explicit, from both men and women, for this choice. It makes me sad.

If it was not a sexist institution, there would be the same number of men changing their name as women, and the same number of women giving their children their names. The statistics tell a wildly different story. It doesn’t really matter if you once knew a man called mr dickdick or hore who unsurprisingly changed his name asap, the reality is that anecdotal evidence is belied by the statistics and I believe more than 90% of men keep their name upon marrying? Correct me if wrong.

Interestingly it seems increasingly that this is just a UK/Ireland/to some extent US issue (although the latter seem entirely comfortable with Ms). I believe all women in France have the same title and legally do not ever change their names, Spain similar, Germany every grown women is Frau these days. International mnsnetters come and share your experiences! Thank you to the middle eastern poster, it’s a good point that many overtly sexist and patriarchal cultures exist where women always keep their name.

Margaret Cavendish as ever has excellent things to say.

Wow. So much overthrowing on here. Some of us really don't care.

LoniceraJaponica

Wow. So much overthrowing on here. Some of us really don't care

Yes and isn't that sad? Some women didn't want the vote either.

It's still my business. I never thought about it at 18. I'm only facing up to my past now that I'm in middle age. But I'll say this, it means that I'm glad I have no connection with my father.

It's a difficult emotional issue, dealing with childhood SA. So don't be so damned simplistic and judgmental.

I just want to add in case it is not clear that I completely support women to make whatever decision they want and would never insult someone in real life by dissing it - in fact the reality is that I have to put up with a lot of women being rude about my choice! But what I can’t do is be complicit that it is 100% feminist choice uninfluenced by patriarchal values. If you experienced the hostile reaction I receive when ASKED (I never volunteer the info) what my married name is and I have to stare into the middle distance and be all ‘oh yeah it’s weird I never actually changed mine’ - a lot of men in my experience do not like it at all and are very clear and vocal about that.

Some of us really don't care.

Which you're perfectly at liberty not to, but some of us do, and your not caring isn't something that anyone else is obliged to pay any attention to. Those of you who don't give a shit are free to continue not giving one.

Oh mousemoose if only I was as eloquent as you, you have written what I feel so much better than I can.

I chose to take my husband's name for various reasons. That was my choice. It wasn't pushed on me.

I respect your opinion OP. I respect your choices. I ask that you respect mine.

Lizzie48
It's a difficult emotional issue, dealing with childhood SA. So don't be so damned simplistic and judgmental

Nobody said it is easy dealing with issues from childhood. Everyone has supported your decision to change your name.

The question is why do women wait till marriage to do this? If you had been aware that it was your name and your choice because more women choose to own their name then you could have changed your name earlier. Then changing your name would have been about you making a powerful decision.

You did what you did for reasons that made sense to you at the time. What posters are saying is support and encourage the younger generation to make positive, powerful decisions rather than passive 'good girl' decisions.

EAch to their own. Feminism is about women being free to choose to do what they want and if that means getting married and change their name then that’s up to them. Get on with your own life and stop being a giant judgypants

Moussemouse... Perhaps it will be easier for subsequent generations to change their name, at will, rather than wait until marriage. If I would be a teen now I would do this - and I'd keep that name regardless of marriage.

My birth name was perfectly ordinary, I just didn't like the person whose name it was but as I mentioned in an earlier post, it wasn't the 'done thing'. I am a bit ashamed about that really because I've done many things that were 'against the grain'.

... and I'd be a 'Ms'. I do prefer 'Miss' but it does seem to invite comments unless you're very young - or elderly.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

Nothing to be ashamed of. I just want women to support and promote women making strong choices. I find the 'I don't care' and the 'oh why the big fuss' arguments depressing.

Christmas cards are also outdated 😊

We are Mr X and Ms Y (unmarried) and have 4 kids actoss 3 schools. Nobody seems to have a problem referring to us as Mr X and Ms Y and I am Ms Y ehen they speak to me directly, even though the kids are all Xs. 10 years ago paekple struggled a but and found it awkward, called me Ms X I mean Y, but nowadays nobdoy bats an eyelid outsdie of xmas cards - whichbare mainly from the older generations anyway these days. We also get some addressed to just our first names.

I think it will soon die out, most of the younger women at work seem to be keeping their names Ive noticed.

Women changing their name is much more the societal norm than men. If a man did it, he'd be making a much bigger statement than a woman who chooses not to change hers (which I really don't believe is the huge shocker so many people seem to think it is).

Of course this doesn't mean women should change their names or men shouldn't, just that they're not equal and opposite actions in a vacuum. I can understand why a man who might not actually mind changing his name as such might not be prepared to go through the endless crap he'd get for it.

OP's getting vitriol because she's calling herself a feminist while berating women for not doing as she tells them, even telling us that we need "shaking" if we don't feel as she does. (My abusive father shook me on many occasions, and worse. Why in the fuck would I want his fucking name? It rhymed with "fuck" anyway, so you can imagine how much fun that was growing up.)

Then, when she gets an entirely expected backlash, starts whinging about ALL THE SHIT SHE'S GOT GOING ON, as if a)this is at all relevant b) she didn't just start this discussion herself and isn't 100% responsible for its existence.

It's obnoxious.

I find it annoying when people get annoyed by this. I chose to change my name. I am
not defined by my name. The dynamic of our relationship has nothing to do with my name and if I'd preferred my maiden name I'd have kept it. I don't understand the big deal.

Moossemoosse, actually I made my statement by rejecting the name my parents gave me (which I detest) and by using the shortened version I myself chose. So I did make a choice as a young person. Identifying myself with the man I chose to spend my life with was a totally positive step that I wanted to take.

When I was in the throws of love I couldn't WAIT! to get married and have my lovely H's name 😘. Now he's dumped me I cannot WAIT to get rid tbh. I wish I'd have kept my name and with the high divorce rate here and in the US, it seems practical to hang on to your maiden name!

Going back to the OP's point, I think you're right but then most people change their name upon marriage so friends are more likely to assume you'd change your name. I don't think it's a big deal but I can imagine it being bloody annoying grr!

Women changing their name is much more the societal norm than men. If a man did it, he'd be making a much bigger statement than a woman who chooses not to change hers (which I really don't believe is the huge shocker so many people seem to think it is). Of course this doesn't mean women should change their names or men shouldn't, just that they're not equal and opposite actions in a vacuum.

Yes, that's exactly our point? That there are still social pressures around this and that's why all the 'oh I just happened not to like my name anyway' is disingenuous. I refuse to believe that around 80% of women hate their names but almost all their brothers are just fine with them. I also don't think 80% of women prefer their father-in-law to their own father.

You make it sound like it's some unchangeable fact that societal attitude exists - but it's not, it's a construct that could disappear, and which women who change their names are - no matter how good their individual reasons - helping to perpetuate.

And you're not a woman who kept her name on marriage, so you're really not in a position to tell us how much hassle or surprise we do or don't get for it.

Yes, that's exactly our point? That there are still social pressures around this

No, it being common and not questioned when it happens doesn't mean there is pressure (at least, there wasn't for me). It's simply that if I change my name, nobody bats an eye, but if my husband did, he'd get a lot of reaction. That doesn't mean he shouldn't do it, but it does mean that they're not equal actions and don't take place in a vacuum.

and that's why all the 'oh I just happened not to like my name anyway' is disingenuous.

As I've said before, my father was abusive so I have no reason to want to keep his name. It rhymed with 'fuck' as well. Yes, I could have changed my name sooner by deed poll but I'll be honest, that was costly and an administrative faff and would have caused more trouble than it was worth among my family (most of them don't know about the abuse). When I was getting married, though, I had a perfect opportunity to take another name without cost, to a man I actually chose and loved, and which sincerely works better with my first name.

Another woman chooses to keep her name, and that's equally fine, absolutely none of my business.

You make it sound like it's some unchangeable fact that societal attitude exists - but it's not, it's a construct that could disappear

Of course it could. But right now, it's very straightforward and doesn't raise any eyebrows. It's different for a man who changes his name, so I can understand why he might not want to even if the principle itself doesn't bother him.

I think more and more younger women are keeping their names now, so it may well be on the way out. I changed my name and I don't care if I'm the last woman ever to do so, I'm quite happy with my choice. If women in the future don't, that's no issue.

And you're not a woman who kept her name on marriage, so you're really not in a position to tell us how much hassle or surprise we do or don't get for it.

No, but I can promise you you'll get none from me. You don't seem to want to return the courtesy.