To be angry at photos at Nativity?

[MrsAnamCara]

Just seen DC infant nativity. We were sent out letters, went to the office yo get tickets, had texts to remind people-all fine and well. No mention of needing permission to take photos/videos. Nothing mentioned before the start of the actual nativity performance either. The performance starts and several people whip their phones out and begin taking photos and videos but not of individual children, of all of the children on stage. It goes on throughout the performance and I can see in their view finder they are filming/recording video of 5+ children... A parent the right if the school Hall is stood filming the entire performance.

No one said they weren't allowed to but...neither was the guardian or parent of every single child asked either.

In my D's nursery, they asked for written permission, and if only one parent didn't give permission then no one was allowed to take photos or videos. Even if we were allowed, then it was photos and videos of your child only (zoom in) and if there were other children then you couldn't post it on social media and send to anyone else.

It really ruined the performance for me, as I don't know these people who are taking videos/photos of my child, I don't know where they will post them or send them to, I don't know who will see that photo or video. I did not give anyone permission to take his photo or record him?

I'm I being unreasonable to think the school should have asked for legal written permission for all children's parents or guardian's? And if some parents don't agree or give permission then that's too bad.

I find this thread really sad.
The total lack of empathy towards vulnerable children and the mind boggling ignorance about safeguarding on here makes we want to weep.
It's been said many times on here but I repeat. Your right to film/photograph your offspring does not trump the right for an at risk child to be protected.

Your right to film/photograph your offspring does not trump the right for an at risk child to be protected.

If I catch your child on video while I'm filming mine they're not suddenly in danger. I'm not posting it online or identifying them by name.

I'm sincerely glad my child's school allows filming and chooses to trust parents and carers first rather than breed a culture of suspicion and dislike.

I hear ya,but you know what folks don’t believe,think risk is exaggerated
And they don’t see need to comply with requests not to film
People Losing sight of the vulnerable child in their own nativity haze

I was Ms Angry on this thread yesterday. Today I just feel upset by it. Being an adoptive parent can be very isolating, and reading some of these posts just makes me want to say, well thanks a fucking lot.

They're not very real threats - I have no words.

To say again, I am not a precious parent. I'm an older mother - had a 70s hippy childhood and generally I'm the one you hear huffing about ridiculous school rules that no children can walk themselves home till Y5, when in my day we all walked home from Y1. I worry that fear of paedophiles means we are teaching children to distrust adults. I roll my eyes at parents I know who tell their small daughters to tug their skirts down, "In case a dirty man sees your knickers".

This is NOT about a-paedo-on-every-corner paranoia, and it reflects badly on every poster whose child is not at risk to pretend that it is. The rush to tell those of us whose children are under threat, that we are imagining/exaggerating it, is really tasteless. What the feck do you know?

And for those posters who are saying you should be allowed to film because one day your child might die - by all means collect your precious memories, but there's no reason why it has to be at the nativity. Photography and filming is also available on the other 364 days of the year.

I would love just one of those posters who has said the risks are exaggerated, to read my posts (or those of other adopters on this thread) and tell me just what I have exaggerated. And how they are a better judge of that than I am.

Nanny ogg you are in no position to deem what is special to other parents, unless of course you are the special parental moments police!

A special moment for the parents/carers of a Looked After or adopted child is knowing they're safe and finally able to live the life any child should live, in complete safety from their past.

And going by some of the posts on here there are a large number of stupid, selfish, wilfully ignorant people out there that just don't get that, and what's worse, don't care.

The replies on this thread are utterly rediculous. OP, YANBU. If you haven't given your permission for your children's photo to be taken the reasons are nobody's business but your own. So all those nosy ppl who wanted to know the reason should just wind their necks in.

Secondly, to all those pro-social media people. As a parent it's your job to protect your children and their rights. Posting their photos on social media is an abuse of trust. If they decide when they are older that they don't want their faces mapped out by facial recognition and AI then, well, you've fucked them there haven't you? Plus if you post pictures of other people's kids, not only have you violated your own kids privacy but the other kids in the picture. Those people who put stickers or blur out other children I commend you. But people who just include other children because they happened to be in the vicinity are just cunts IMHO.

Children are people too. They have rights, leave it until they are old enough to decide for themselves.

If this is your main worry in life then bravo, you are certainly being unreasonable by making such a fuss about nothing

Why would you say a fuss about nothing? You are advocating violating people's right to privacy yet you point the finger at people for being unreasonable. Not only that, you've trivialised the safety and rights of children by calling it a main worry in life. Yes, the safety of my children is my main priority in life. Get back under your rock!

bencrone if this is something you don't have to worry about, then bravo.

If you don't want your child to be filmed or appear in other people's pictures you always have the option to take them out of the play.
I don't get why that precious child is more important or has more rights than the others.
If I want to film I will there is no hell you're gonna stop me.

Well, this thread has been quite the education . To summarise:

OP: I'm concerned about filming of school nativity.

Smartphone parents: well, you're a ridiculous precious snowflake. Nobody cares about your kids. What on earth do you think is going to happen? Do you think there's a paedo on every corner? Who are you to deny me my precious memories? etc

Adoptive/other parents: hang on, try to understand the situation our kids are in. It's not about paedos, it's not about photos, but there is a real risk here if these images get onto social media. Let me tell you something about that risk.

Smartphone parents: well, you're a ridiculous precious snowflake. Nobody cares about your kids. What on earth do you think is going to happen? Do you think there's a paedo on every corner? Who are you to deny me my precious memories? etc

And so on and so on ad nauseam.

pinkspices - and if the headteacher says no filming - you're still going to film? because your need to film is more important than safeguarding vulnerable children who could be identified on film... pretty shitty. But then your alternative - that these "precious" children (who may have already had a pretty horrific start to life) should be excluded from participating in a celebratory event at school - woah you are spreading the love and inclusivity aren't you?

Even if I can understand the lack of sympathy, the lack of compassion, I don't understand the lack of intellectual curiosity.

So, Pinkspices as just the latest example: you don't get it? Have you read the thread? If you still don't get it, why don't you ask?

And can't you see, it's not that my child is more important than your child, it's that my child is more at risk than your child.

This sharp-elbowed, "Don't you think your child has more rights than mine" attitude is so ugly when we are talking about kids who have been denied the very basic rights of childhood: safety, uninterrupted love, being able to be mothered by the woman who gave birth to you.

I have heard it many times at school. Complaints that adopted children get priority admission. Complaints that adopted children get first dibs at all the clubs (complete fantasy). Complaints that adopted children bring down the school's results and should maybe go somewhere where 'they would fit in better' . It's giving me a pretty bleak view of human nature - that people who have so much can't even spare crumbs for children who have had so little.

Oh Ketzele - it must be so dispiriting to read threads like this but I do think (but haven't done the maths) that the sharp elbowers on here are in the minority. Still not good but there is more good in human nature I like to think

It is dispiriting, myrtle - and I always find it quite shocking because I've been on MN a long time (14 years) and generally I have found it a very supportive environment. But I suppose most people are supportive unless they are asked to give up something - even something as small as filming a Nativity.

But I am sure you are right about more good in human nature. Perhaps it's just harder for people to get in the abstract - I'm sure that if they saw a real life child under threat, they would react differently.

The problem is there will always be that one parent who thinks the rule doesn't apply or their facebook security setting are safe enough to upload. Always going to be that risk. Surely it's better even if seen as a somewhat inconvenience to have a ban.. Take photos after or whatever. Don't see why others should have to miss out just because of the actions of others.

Must be better to see it in the moment then through a screen with heads in the way anyway.

A really, really good way of making proper memories is to genuinely watch a performance with full attention while it happens live.

If that were actually true, there would never have been the invention of home movie / still shot cameras. And they wouldn’t have grown exponentially in popularity, and there would never have been the need to integrate these things into smart phones. People have always wanted to record memories way back in time, the only difference now is that the technology is far more available to everybody because it is affordable.

You can easily remember something in your own head, but you can’t share that for years to come. I recorded our girl using her walking sticks for the first time on front of an audience as she got on to the stage. I was still able to enjoy watching her do it, but was also able to share that with my family who were not there. The memory is no less precious for it being recorded.

Perfect question

ketzele you have explained things so well and in such a considered way. I agree with you, I am more sad than angry having read the subsequent posts which, even after yours and others careful and articulate explanation as to why there can be no photos because you cannot guarantee all parents will abide by the no sharing on social media rule, still think their 'right' to film their child trumps my child's right to be able to participate in celebratory events like all the other children AND be kept safe.

Sometimes I am in awe of human nature. Sometimes, like on this thread, I despair of people's selfishness.

Mostly this thread has made me despair about the nation’s reading comprehension. 😐

I’ve also been wondering about how much of an overlap there is between the people who need to #filmmemories regardless and those who would adopt-them-all-if-only-they-had-a-spare-room every time there’s a Channel 4 documentary on. I’m guessing upwards of 80% overlap.

Yet those of us who actually made room are bad selfish people.

DDs school has blanket permission forms signed at the beginning of the year. You can’t refuse permission for a photograph to be taken but you can refuse its use on notice boards, social media school advertising etc. At the Nativity last week the Head managed the taking of photos/videos and reminded everyone not to post on social media as not all parents had given permission. Seems sensible to me but of course a stray picture could get out.

*If I catch your child on video while I'm filming mine they're not suddenly in danger. I'm not posting it online or identifying them by name.

I'm sincerely glad my child's school allows filming and chooses to trust parents and carers first rather than breed a culture of suspicion and dislike.*

It’s not about trust or culture. Your school does not choose to trust you to safeguard their children. If a child joins your school who would be placed at risk if a photo made it to social media, your school will shut down filming and photos straight away.

If you catch an at risk child and place it on social media, that childs safety is compromised. What part of that don’t you get? If someone sees it- and all they need to do is google “year 4 nativity stockport” and finds out which school their removed child is at, the consequences for the child are unthinkable.

Big lol at the paranoia here

I'm going to use tiny words here because you're clearly hard of thinking.

As part of the risk assessment I do for drama I have to factor in death theats against a child. Because of the professional life of one of their parents there are active death threats against a small child.

All it takes is someone to film. To catch parent on film. Show it to someone "omg x's children go there". They show it to a friend etc etc.

Child is at school under a false name. I didn't realise who child was until 6 years through school; the parent very rarely attends anything due to safety (other parent does).

But sure "big lol" at paranoia, huh? 🙄