To be angry at photos at Nativity?

[MrsAnamCara]

Just seen DC infant nativity. We were sent out letters, went to the office yo get tickets, had texts to remind people-all fine and well. No mention of needing permission to take photos/videos. Nothing mentioned before the start of the actual nativity performance either. The performance starts and several people whip their phones out and begin taking photos and videos but not of individual children, of all of the children on stage. It goes on throughout the performance and I can see in their view finder they are filming/recording video of 5+ children... A parent the right if the school Hall is stood filming the entire performance.

No one said they weren't allowed to but...neither was the guardian or parent of every single child asked either.

In my D's nursery, they asked for written permission, and if only one parent didn't give permission then no one was allowed to take photos or videos. Even if we were allowed, then it was photos and videos of your child only (zoom in) and if there were other children then you couldn't post it on social media and send to anyone else.

It really ruined the performance for me, as I don't know these people who are taking videos/photos of my child, I don't know where they will post them or send them to, I don't know who will see that photo or video. I did not give anyone permission to take his photo or record him?

I'm I being unreasonable to think the school should have asked for legal written permission for all children's parents or guardian's? And if some parents don't agree or give permission then that's too bad.

Legally a nativity play is a public occasion. As is sports day and so on. Whether you like it or not, that's how it's defined in law for the purposes of the DPA.

It doesn't mean it makes it ok to share anything on social media, but with these comments if seeing Little Tarquin in his donkey suit for a lifetime is really so imperative they show complete disregard for other parents. No, it doesn't trump children safety, but a bit of understanding from both side would go a long way. Is mocking someone for wishing to watch their own child nativity really necessary?

Quoting in context does help, here. I also said I thought a costs-only DVD and photos should be made, which presumably would serve you better than random images from a parent more focused on their own child? My irritation was at the parents earlier who complained about the costs of that, when they wanted to take their own for nowt. Obviously it's going to help working parents who can't attend, if decent images are taken for them, no?

I apologise if you didn't see those comments, though - I appreciate it would be upsetting otherwise. I just feel frustration that some people think a fiver less important than a vulnerable child's protection, which clearly doesn't apply to you.

Legally a nativity play is a public occasion.

Nope. It's in a private place and they can charge admission to a select group of people. You don't have to allow access and you don't have to allow cameras. What you can't do is allow cameras and then seek to apply the DDP. But you can say there's a blanket ban. There is no right in law to bring a camera into a private place.

I would happily pay for the school edited DVD or professional photos if that option was available. I would also prefer it to having to film the whole thing by myself, as I would be able to enjoy it without worrying about filming it or taking pictures at the right moment my child is in the stage.
Sadly, none of those options are available at the moment in our school.

Tracking children through biometrics is not an industry priority at the moment and there are many people saying that it's unwise to proceed with much development on this front because of ethical considerations. We closed down one project for exactly that reason.

Whether it is private or not would depend whether it was a local authority school or not. Technically speaking.

LaPompadour - I don't think anyone is denying that it's great for family and friends who aren't able to attend the performance to get to see some photos or a video instead. We live overseas at the moment, so apart from DH, all of our family miss out on this kind of stuff where our DC are concerned.

It comes back to people being trusted not to abuse the images that they take on their cameras and phones. If they adhere to the policies which most schools have, and keep their footage personal then there's no problem. It's the people who think that this is all a load of namby pamby nonsense and no-one is going to stop them posting a picture of little Seraphina as Mary on Facebook that cause the problems for everyone (including the parents who genuinely just want to take a photo of little Toby playing Joseph to send to his granny, but now can't because Seraphina's parents are twats)

Fatberg of all the school play dvds I have sat through I have never ever seen a blurred out face. Therefore any video I take contains nobody that isn’t shown in the school dvd. Can’t see the difference, once I have a dvd I can publish anywhere and show who I want. Also school class photos??
Also do people with adoptive children put hats on their children and hide their faces in public?? Not take them to busy places? Or will that be next?! If people are really that concerned that their child will be filmed, they really think that lives are at risk then they should not be allowed to perform as the reality is that someone is probably filming (most school policies allow you to film as long as you don’t post on Social media). If you don’t trust that other parents won’t post and your children/your lives are at risk, you should decide if they should be in the play at all, sorry if you are flabbergasted that people suggest this but if their moment of fame as an angel really does put them at such risk, surely a decision needs to be made.
Judging by the amount of people filming at our school, I think most are FOR filming and won’t be signing any petition.

YANBU of course.

I can't believe some of the comments on here.

I watched my dd in her school production the other week. The Head said quite clearly at the beginning that no photography or video was allowed in conjunction with the child protection policy. In spite of this, two people from the same family in the row in front were filming and taking photos. I tapped them on the shoulder and told them not to, they stopped eventually.

Makes me so angry. And apart from the protection issue, why is everyone so obsessed with taking photos of EVERYTHING these days?

My kids school take photos of the nativity, remove the children who don't have photo permission and then put the rest on the parent's area of the website that has a password.

Just blurring out children's faces with the blurring tool in paint isnt enough as there is software out there that can 'descramble' blurred pictures. It tends to have a rather unpleasant 'niche' use though.
Best practice is to colour in a child's face, blur that and then colour them in again.

Anyone with a reasonable degree of computer literacy can find out rather a lot about a photo.

Some people also have their phones set so that it auto uploads photos onto social media.

Thankfully the people at the kids school who deal with stuff like photos, internet and the media know their stuff

Even LA schools are privates places, even though they serve a public purpose and are paid for by the public purse. This web page on how parents can be banned from school premises is a helpful summary

fatberg without the school having access to your social media there is no guarantee but it is a close community and I am unusual in not having other parents as friends on fb (because I never really use it) but I am still certain that if I posted anything it would work it’s way back to the school.

Also the school has great pastoral care, if any parent had approached the school about a child in the class I am sure they would have said no.

We didn’t get to see our children after the nativity so would not have had a chance for a photo otherwise.

DH couldn’t make the show and he had practised the lines with DS every night so it was nice for him to see a 15 sec video of our DS nailing it.

Are you actually reading any of the thread, piggy?

Also do people with adoptive children put hats on their children and hide their faces in public??

Don't be so ridiculous. People have to go about their normal lives but to refrain from filming children in shows is something that we can all do quite easily. Just lessens the risk doesn't it?

piggy I'm really hoping here that you haven't RTTT. If you have then I am severely depressed.

And also - constant filming and flashes going off is very disrupting to the performing children. And often causes arguments in the audience of people waving their cameras around.

Just sit and watch and enjoy the bloody thing! Enjoy the here and now. And yes sometimes parents/grandparents will miss things, that's life, you can't always be there for everything.

Jeez.

! If people are really that concerned that their child will be filmed, they really think that lives are at risk then they should not be allowed to perform

So yet another foolish person advocating a child who is already very different is made even more so just so people like you can have a video?

I don't have any videos of my daughter's school plays. And you know what? Who cares? I don't have to live every day with the worry that someone is going to harm my child and that is worth a 1000 grainy, wobbly videos

Agree completely that ketzele and others have explained this way more clearly than I could and yet still some posters feel the need to chip in and tell us we are being precious and 'it's just a photo'.

This is one of those things that drives me mad regularly.

Our school is brilliant at telling parents not to take photos because there are vulnerable children at risk who attend the school. The vast majority of parents understand and comply. Yet still, at every performance or event where parents are invited I have to have one eye on my child and one on whether any dickhead parents are filming because they think the rule doesn't apply to them. And yes, the risk to my child is very real. I wish it wasn't. I also wish I didn't have to attend every public event at school worrying about whether some idiot will be photographing or filming it.

It also flabbergasts me that people are still suggesting that children whose parents refuse permission for photos should just not take part in stuff. My child has had to put up with more crap in her short life than any kid should have to deal with because of the choices of the adults around her, she shouldn't have to miss out on normal school experiences too because a different group of adults can't be trusted not to stick photos or videos on bloody Facebook.

Well said poppy

piggy I didn’t say blurred, I said edited.

As for the rest of your post, 🍆

Sorry perfectstorm I didn't mean to have a special go at you, but your sentence was a good summary and better written than some of the comments earlier.

By itself, it's not unreasonable for close family to have a video of their kids.

At our children's prep. school they didn't allow photos or videos to be taken. they had a video taken of one of the performances and you could buy photos of your child in the performance. I liked this as our children are adopted locally from a very abusive situation. But it was also so nice not to be sitting behind someone with a phone stuck up in the air so you couldn't see a thing.

lucked, I get it. i want to video the shows so that my dh can see our LO. But I can’t film because of the ban that’s there to protect my LO from other people being twats.

But probably not on social media isn’t good enough for some of our children. It’s just not.

Whether it is private or not would depend whether it was a local authority school or not.

You can't saunter up to a school and demand entry unless you are yourself professionally entitled to do so, or are there in connection with a child you have PR or delegated responsibility for, though? Local authority or not. Heads can determine who has access, and they can also determine whether or not you can take in a camera.

The reality is that a school can't control what parents do with images they take. But they can ban them from taking any. Devon issues the following advice to schools (after pages of guidance on their own DPA responsibilities around film) ^The Data Protection Act does not prevent parents or other family members from photographing their children on sports day, in school performances or in other school events. Schools are entitled to decide whether or not they allow photography to take place on their premises, however, it should not be banned for fear of breaching The Data Protection Act (the
DPA). The DPA does not apply to parents or other family members taking pictures of their children for their own personal use, for example to go in a family photo album."

It's reassuring schools that they won't fall foul of the DPA if they allow photos. It's not saying they can't ban cameras for safeguarding reasons.

Is this the standard reply to anyone who disagrees, have you read the thread?! Yes thank you. Did you read my post and what bit made you depressed? Think you are a little over invested in this teen if it’s making you depressed!! Some of you people really need to relax! I am a realist and the reality is that most school policies allow you to film (not post), in my experience most people take photos and the school records a dvd. If the school has this policy and you really don’t want your kids filmed then then you have a choice or need to speak to your school, not demand a blanket ban on all schools changing policies!!!