To be angry at photos at Nativity?

[MrsAnamCara]

Just seen DC infant nativity. We were sent out letters, went to the office yo get tickets, had texts to remind people-all fine and well. No mention of needing permission to take photos/videos. Nothing mentioned before the start of the actual nativity performance either. The performance starts and several people whip their phones out and begin taking photos and videos but not of individual children, of all of the children on stage. It goes on throughout the performance and I can see in their view finder they are filming/recording video of 5+ children... A parent the right if the school Hall is stood filming the entire performance.

No one said they weren't allowed to but...neither was the guardian or parent of every single child asked either.

In my D's nursery, they asked for written permission, and if only one parent didn't give permission then no one was allowed to take photos or videos. Even if we were allowed, then it was photos and videos of your child only (zoom in) and if there were other children then you couldn't post it on social media and send to anyone else.

It really ruined the performance for me, as I don't know these people who are taking videos/photos of my child, I don't know where they will post them or send them to, I don't know who will see that photo or video. I did not give anyone permission to take his photo or record him?

I'm I being unreasonable to think the school should have asked for legal written permission for all children's parents or guardian's? And if some parents don't agree or give permission then that's too bad.

At the school fair recently a list of Reception children's full names was displayed on the classroom wall. The school also used to publish full names in the newsletter, but now it goes online they've switched to first names only. I've been given full names in class lists before.

What about when the school take photos or when they record plays onto dvd’s?? Most schools do this and your child’s face will be on the DVD, how is this different to another parent recording on their phone?

Patiently, once again:

Because when a school takes photos or records plays they know exactly what the photo agreement is for each child, so they can take steps to exclude any children that shouldn't appear, by editing the recording, or doing photos that don't include them.

Random parents don't do that.

I missed my DC's performance due to work and I am glad another parent recorded the whole thing and shared it in the parents whatsapp group, just saying...

ketzele, I always think you’re brilliant, but today you’re outdoing yourself. 🏆

And YY to the missing children posts.

You know there are websites out their whose purpose is to find children social services ‘stole’?

I’m going to carry on being ‘offended’ on behalf of my children.

FreeNiki
Read The Fucking Thread

The Information Commissioner's Office issued very specific Data Protection Act guidance on this some years ago.

ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1136/taking_photos.pdf

You can take whatever pictures you like at school performances - it's a private occasion. It can be of any children you like. And you can do with them what you like. You do not need permission, and the school can not direct you in what you do with them.

It is however illegal for a school to take pictures of your children without your written consent, for example to use in a prospectus.

It is polite not to splash loads of pictures of other children all over the internet but there's no law that can stop you. Good practice is for a school to appeal to people's better nature.

My friends dc can’t be seen in case her dad who’s been let of prison and isn’t allowed to see her finds her. It only takes one person to post a picture up on social media and he could find her school etc.
It’s actually super important these rules are adhered to. I didn’t appreciate it until my friends situation though.

The parallels are incredibly striking. Reading this is really familiar, but without the knowledge that any really vile posts will be deleted or challenged by MNHQ for disablism.

I hope parents affected don't mind but I have messaged MNHQ to ask that they consider a similar campaign. The ignorance, bigotry and selfishness really is directly analogous, and while you won't sway the committed arseholes, in my experience they are fewer in number than people who simply don't understand. A campaign to educate may help at least a little bit?

ilovesooty completely agree. A costs-only DVD edited carefully so only families of vulnerable kids have any footage of them, and a costs-only set of carefully cropped photos for parents who want them could square this circle nicely.

After all, if seeing Little Tarquin in his donkey suit for a lifetime is really so imperative, then shelling out a few quid to ensure it should be no problem. And it would keep other children safe.

On the evidence here, I'm afraid I don't believe all parents will stick to the no social media rule, even if it is flagged up.

Some of the comments on this thread are gobsmacking.

In my career I have worked with:
7 adopted children
2 children who were victims of a CSE ring
10 children in unstable foster placements
Countless children who witnessed or were subject to DV, 6 of whom were in refuges and actively running.

I’m a safeguarding officer. If the only way to make sure the risk to those children wasn’t made higher was to ban phones, iPads and cameras from the premises, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

Some children’s ‘memories’ are of awful, awful abuse. Let’s look after them rather than your memory of a play. Just be thankful that your child is safe, with you and not suffering the awful fall out of trauma.

My child participates in class photos. She does dance shows which end up on DVD. She is in school performances. I don't care about her having her picture taken. I do care about those pictures ending up on social media, along with potentially identifying details. Now, if the posters on this thread who are saying, "Photos don't steal your soul! Just don't put them on social media!" could explain to us HOW I stop parents sharing on social media, I'd love to hear it.

And please stop telling me I'm over-excited because I have to assess the risks to my child. What is over-excited is all these parents who seem to think their child's life is being snatched from them if they aren't allowed to view it through a smartphone.

Newhouse, the face recognition technology won't work on a child that young. You're looking at mid to late teens before it can usefully do that, and even then it would have to be perfectly lit etc.

fatberg

boffin that’s to comply with the DPA, nothing to do with safe-guarding.

It’s up to schools to decide whether or not people are a) allowed on premises and b) can take photos.

boffin, my bog standard iPhone sorts all my photos according to who is in them. It knows that my then two year old is the same child as my now 5yo.

It’s fucking terrifying. (And those are family snap shots, not professionally lit anything...)

Not exactly. They can't just outright ban all citizen photography on the off chance there might be a safeguarding problem, as this could be contested. They would have to have serious grounds for such a ban, rather than a vague 'it might be a problem'.

A simple way around this is to take quasi-professional shots of the play and ask parents to buy them for 50p towards school funds. Then the photos are better and the children who need protecting can be screened out.

I missed my DC's performance due to work and I am glad another parent recorded the whole thing

It's quite sad that some posters refuse to admit that some parents and grand parents are unable, being at work or in hospital, to view their children.

It doesn't mean it makes it ok to share anything on social media, but with these comments if seeing Little Tarquin in his donkey suit for a lifetime is really so imperative they show complete disregard for other parents. No, it doesn't trump children safety, but a bit of understanding from both side would go a long way. Is mocking someone for wishing to watch their own child nativity really necessary?

We are still allowed but reminded of the no social media rule every time. So far we have had no problems as people take it very seriously.

How do you know lucked?

My DH recorded our DDs' Nativity on his camcorder. We were told beforehand that we could take photos and record it. But only for our personal use, that we mustn't post anything on social media, and the headteacher gave us the reasons why we shouldn't do that. So they should have said something about that beforehand.

Thank you Boffin that’s reassuring.
Wish SS had offered us that important info when they told us of his threats.

That's quite different from doing it over the entire internet. Seriously, your phone is just making an assumption about who is likely to be on it based on an algorithm. It can't do facial recognition of kids in the way you are suggesting.

boffin, it won’t be 2017 forever.

my bog standard iPhone sorts all my photos according to who is in them. It knows that my then two year old is the same child as my now 5yo.

to be fair, my own Iphone thinks any of my children is at least 6 different people.

Schools aren't public occasions, BoffinMum

Schools are absolutely able to set their own policies on photos, and indeed who is allowed to be on the premises in the first place.

The NSPCC has some guidelines that should inform policies, which makes clear that consent (parental consent, in the case of small children) is vital

To be fair they wouldn't necessarily know. I only know because I am involved in biometrics professionally.

if it helps, after the London riots they tried to track individuals who had been looting. Facial recognition failed at this so they relied on one other digital method I won't disclose here, and also 'super-recognisers' - humans with a good eye for tracking people at different angles. The tech has come on a bit since then but not massively in respect of children. They actually look fairly similar digitally.