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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

.. or does this Islamic thinking on alcohol seem pointless?

211 replies

DefinitelyMaybePossibly · 13/12/2017 22:57

A group of us from work went out for lunch today. One of our group asked if we were drinking alcohol, because if we were, our Muslim colleague couldn't come. It wasn't an issue because none of us were. Since we went to a restaurant where all customers, even if in separate groups sit around the same long tables, other customers on our table were consuming alcohol. AIBU to think it's a bit pointless theologically to make a point of only coming if your group don't drink alcohol when others sitting as close or even closer are drinking?

I have been out with other muslim friends and alcohol consumption hasn't been an issue. So perhaps someone with an Islamic background can explain the theological thinking here.

OP posts:
violetsue · 16/12/2017 16:57

Yes whatsthatnoise it is ridiculous and yes it does minimise actual islamaphobia, but it happens all the time. My saying it about Christians shows how damn ridiculous it is and that was my intention.

violetsue · 16/12/2017 17:02

But anyway, the point is that people need to be mindful of what they say, write and think

Yes SIR, i'll try and remember that in future. Shock

VioletDaze · 16/12/2017 17:02

It is strange that the Muslim teachings eschew the consumption of alcohol and yet apparently so many stores/corner shops/garages which appear to be owned/operated by Muslims are more than happy to profit by selling it.

Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? Like...there are millions of Muslims world wide and they don't all have a single hive mind. It's as if they're people or something.

WhatsThatNoiseMum · 16/12/2017 17:03

TDH

A lot of Muslims are not aware that selling and gaining profit from it is not permissible.

WhatsThatNoiseMum · 16/12/2017 17:04

And to be honest a lot wouldn’t care if they did know! As is repeated over and over, we are all different

WhatsThatNoiseMum · 16/12/2017 17:05

Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? Like...there are millions of Muslims world wide and they don't all have a single hive mind. It's as if they're people or something

Ha, this made me chuckle

violetsue · 16/12/2017 17:23

Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? Like...there are millions of Muslims world wide and they don't all have a single hive mind. It's as if they're people or something
I don't think that's a fair comment, i'm certain the poster wasn't talking about just one or two. Muslims who sell alcohol certainly arent on a small scale. It is hypocritical.

VladmirsPoutine · 16/12/2017 17:29

It is hypocritical.

Agreed. In fact Muslims shouldn't be shopping in for example Tesco or Sainsbury's because those supermarkets also stock e.g. pork and alcohol; it's absolutely hypocritical. There should be Muslim-certified supermarkets just for Muslims only. Let's take your cogent argument to its logical conclusion.

violetsue · 16/12/2017 17:34

That's childish and ridiculous and said to imply something more than what's being said. As a Christian i am appalled at the level of ridicule and nastiness on some threads towards us. I certainly never make remarks like that.

FruitCider · 16/12/2017 17:39

To be honest most Muslims I know drink alcohol quietly so I’ve not come across this problem... it only tends to be older Muslims that I meet that don’t drink.

WhatsThatNoiseMum · 16/12/2017 17:45

Muslims who sell alcohol certainly arent on a small scale. It is hypocritical

As I said many genuinely do not know the prohibition (the impermissibility of consuming alcohol is mentioned in the Quran) selling, sitting with etc is mentioned in Hadiths, some people don’t follow hadiths so won’t believe it’s not permissible and some do follow hadiths but there are thousands and thousands of Hadith they most likely have not come across this particular one. Some just don’t care and continue selling. It’s a pretty wide spectrum and to say they are all hypocritical is ignorant.

WhatsThatNoiseMum · 16/12/2017 17:50

it's just i have noticed, that when it's a thread about Christians, if anyone makes any reference to Islam or Hinduism etc, (as a religion to compare with,) you get shot down and accused of being some kind of "phobe" or whatever and why bring that into it, we weren't talking about that. In other words if it's a bit of a derogatory thread about Christianity, other religions are never allowed to be brought into it. Just something i've noticed

I wouldn’t get too upset about this to be honest. In this country Christianity is not a religion that is despised. You are not viewed as an alien. Be thankful you don’t get spat in the face and called a terrorist bitch, that you don’t get vans accelerate towards you and your baby in a pram then slow down, laugh and shout ‘should of run you over see how you lot like it terrorist cunt’, that you don’t have a scarf on your head ripped off from behind by a group of teenage boys, that you don’t have to deal with hate groups targeting your religion with a substantial amount of followers, that you don’t have to deal with trump and other leaders in a position of power who hate your religion and it’s people....I could go on and on.

It’s not correct if this is in fact what happens on threads on mumsnet, but perhaps focus on the bigger picture and how fortunate you are in this country to be a Christian. Maybe you won’t sweat the small stuff then.

VladmirsPoutine · 16/12/2017 17:56

It’s a pretty wide spectrum and to say they are all hypocritical is ignorant.

I agree with this but violetsue has been on a roll somewhat on this thread making sweeping statements. I'm not surprised she thinks it's hypocritical. There's a certain type of person that can only think in very black and white, dogmatic non-critical terms, violetsue is one such person. That sort of attitude is much more an indictment on the state of compassion and civility in our society, more so than any Muslim running a corner shop selling beer.

violetsue · 16/12/2017 18:00

whatsthatnoise no you've got it wrong, it's not the fact that you say the profiting of alcohol is banned and some muslims aren't aware of it. It's the hypocrisy in denouncing alcohol in their teachings but at the same time selling it and making a profit. whether they know or not that they shouldn't profit from alcohol is t the issue here, it's the denouncing of it but at the same time selling it that is hypocritical. That's what the poster meant.

WhatsThatNoiseMum · 16/12/2017 18:00

vladmirs

I couldn’t of put it better myself.

What I do find hypocritical is when someone tells others not to assume the worst in them yet then goes on to assume the worst of thousands of other people.....

violetsue · 16/12/2017 18:09

vladmirs i'm not on a roll at all, it wasn't me but another poster who talked of hypocrisy and i agree. I'm entitled to my opinion. As a Christian i get massively vilified on these type of threads, it isn't a sweeping statement to say that on the threads against Christians other religions don't get brought into it. Don't tell me what kind of person i am, i like fair play and despise double standards. I'm sick to death of Christianity getting slated, but at least we can have a decent debate. Unlike this one where to have a opinion is taken out of context and being accused of being "dogmatic". Pathetic.

violetsue · 16/12/2017 18:11

What I do find hypocritical is when someone tells others not to assume the worst in them yet then goes on to assume the worst of thousands of other people.....
Oh you mean like they do on any thread about Christianity, oh those double standards.

violetsue · 16/12/2017 18:13

whatsthat noise i'm not sweating any stuff, why should I. I also don't need anyone to preach to me.I have enough to put up with in my life too, so don't tell me to be grateful.

VioletDaze · 16/12/2017 18:14

it's not the fact that you say the profiting of alcohol is banned and some muslims aren't aware of it. It's the hypocrisy in denouncing alcohol in their teachings but at the same time selling it and making a profit. whether they know or not that they shouldn't profit from alcohol is t the issue here, it's the denouncing of it but at the same time selling it that is hypocritical. That's what the poster meant.

So someone is a hypocrite for not following a rule they don't know about?

As a Christian, do you really want to go down this road? Because I have a theology degree with a focus on 1st-5th century Christianity and I'm not afraid to use it Grin

ButchyRestingFace · 16/12/2017 18:17

Too many Violets on this thread. Grin

violetsue · 16/12/2017 18:24

Did you not read what i said, it's not the lack of knowledge about the banning of making profit. Forget that, it's the selling of something for profit but at the same time denouncing it. How is that hard to understand?

StatelessPrincess · 16/12/2017 18:26

I think it's unfair to say that Muslims who sell alcohol are hypocrites. They might just be culturally Muslim and not practicing, or they might belong to the Bektashi Order or something and believe alcohol is permissible. Or have other reasons entirely. I don't really see why it's anyone's business. I can't imagine Muslim's who sell alcohol go about denouncing it since Muslims who don't drink or sell it generally don't bother doing that either. Again, we are not all the same.

violetsue · 16/12/2017 18:26

violet What the hell has Christianity in the 1st-5th century have to do with anything? Confused

violetsue · 16/12/2017 18:32

Anyway i couldn't care less, i'm going. The hypocrisy and double standards are too much. Not much "compassion and civility" as vladmirs put it. You couldn't make it up.

VladmirsPoutine · 16/12/2017 18:39

Again, we are not all the same.

Exactly this. In fact the OP's post could be answered with just that statement alone.

I was raised in the Christian faith and though no longer actively practising, I would like to take this opportunity to really echo this point: "We are not all the same". Christians aren't all the same either; I for one would like to distance myself as far as possible from violetsue's "As a Christian" comments. If in the same vein she is making sweeping statements about Muslims it would only be fair for someone to use her remarks as a benchmark regarding all Christians. So for the sake of common sense and civil debate please don't let her tarnish us all with her ignorance.