.. or does this Islamic thinking on alcohol seem pointless?

[DefinitelyMaybePossibly]

A group of us from work went out for lunch today. One of our group asked if we were drinking alcohol, because if we were, our Muslim colleague couldn't come. It wasn't an issue because none of us were. Since we went to a restaurant where all customers, even if in separate groups sit around the same long tables, other customers on our table were consuming alcohol. AIBU to think it's a bit pointless theologically to make a point of only coming if your group don't drink alcohol when others sitting as close or even closer are drinking?

I have been out with other muslim friends and alcohol consumption hasn't been an issue. So perhaps someone with an Islamic background can explain the theological thinking here.

butchy i know what i said, and guess what, it came out wrong, if it was in real life it would have been quickly remedied to say "obviously not if we're talking about someone in a wheelchair", you know because someone would probably have reminded me. Don't jump down my throats because i hadn't said that. Please make allowances for the written word and dont be so eager to think bad of soneone ffs.

Never met a sanctimonious judgemental Christian teetotaller then?
Less of the Christianphobe, if that remark was made about muslims it would be considered islamaphobe. It works both ways you know. Why even bring Christians into it, there's enough threads slagging them of without dragging them into this one.

It wouldn't be either "phobe".

the word gets used too freely, but it's derogatory against Christians.

Don't jump down my throats because i hadn't said that. Please make allowances for the written word and dont be so eager to think bad of soneone ffs

I’m not jumping down anyone’s throat. Nor was I thinking “bad” of anyone. I was responding to your attempt to deflect something so that another poster was in the wrong.

All you had to do was say was “whoops, you’re right - that wasn’t what I meant”. No need to cast aspertions on other posters when they simply respond to what you have written as you have written it.

No its not, its describing a particular type of person that exists. It's not describing all christians by any stretch, so it can't possibly be Christianphobic (which isn't a thing anyway)

I don’t follow the thinking that if alcohol is banned by your religion you can’t sit at a table where someone else is drinking. Isn’t the point that you don’t drink, not that you don’t observe others drinking?

I feel pretty strongly about not eating animals, but refusing to sit at a restaurant table where other people are eating animals is not going to stop them doing it.

Like all religions it’s open to interpretation like some Christians will be pro life and pro gun and not see the irony.

All you had to do was say was “whoops, you’re right - that wasn’t what I meant”.
Yes and that's exactly what i'd have said if the comment to me had been said in a friendly non accusatory way, but it wasn't. It was said in a sarcastic nasty way. No need for the nastiness.

Fwiw it’s worth I’m happy to make allowances to accommodate any beliefs which are not sexist, racist or homophobic if it means I can include more of my friends and coworkers in our celebrations.

I can assure you curry that if someone on here said "never met a sanctimonious judgemental, muslim teetotaller" or words similar, someone on here would be shouting "islamaphobe". Ridiculous i know but it's got to work both ways surely.

Yes and that's exactly what i'd have said if the comment to me had been said in a friendly non accusatory way, but it wasn't. It was said in a sarcastic nasty way. No need for the nastiness

I’ve read what she said. There was nothing “nasty” about it.

Your response to her however was disingenuous and that was why I replied. I suppose I was being “nasty” too?

On an unrelated note, I have no idea how some peeps survive the internet.

I'm guessing the OP must be having a drink or two. Given they've forgotten to post on this...or any other thread.

gamer but we aren't talking about Christians, why even bring them into it.

Like all religions it’s open to interpretation like some Christians will be pro life and pro gun and not see the irony.

I agree that the it’s ironic but not inherently incompatible, imo.

On a side note, I always had Charlton Heston down as one-note, gun lovin’ schwang.

Who knew that he had been such a principled and outspoken campaigner for the black civil rights movement?

I’m bringing Christians into it because all religions have proscriptions that make no sense to people outside of the religion and Christianity is an example most of us are familiar with. I could have also mentioned kosher food or no hair cutting for Sikhs as examples of rules which don’t really hold up to logical scrutiny but they are not from my culture so they are not my go to examples.

I find these threads so odd, there are about 1.7 billion Muslim's in the world, obviously we don't all think and behave in the same way.
OP if you genuinely wanted an answer to your question, why didn't you ask the woman you're talking about, instead of random mumsnetters?

Muslim women who sit in the back seat of the car when their husband is driving I've been told this is a South Asian cultural thing, have only ever seen Hindus do it.

On an unrelated note, I have no idea how some peeps survive the internet.
Well i survive ok, sure maybe i am a bit sensitive but i'm never nasty, your nastiness was in the need to remind me of my thoughtlessness in not thinking of people in wheelchairs when really you probably knew i wouldn't have meant it that way. You were more or less accusing me of not caring about wheelchair users. That's hurtful and nasty, nothing could be further from the truth.

You were more or less accusing me of not caring about wheelchair users. That's hurtful and nasty, nothing could be further from the truth.

I literally said not one word about your thoughts in relation to wheelchair users.

Nor did the other poster imply that you didn’t care about wheelchair users.

You must be in a state of permanent distress if you think someone referring to a weakness in your argument means that they think you’re “bad” or “don’t care about wheelchair users”.

I didn’t say or think that. Nor did the PP.

I don’t follow the thinking that if alcohol is banned by your religion you can’t sit at a table where someone else is drinking. Isn’t the point that you don’t drink, not that you don’t observe others drinking?

Yes the point is that you don’t drink, I can understand why it seems odd and perhaps it is! Before I converted to Islam I didn’t really understand issues like this and in fact it would annoy/borderline anger me for some reason. I don’t have a definitive answer but the way I see it is, for someone like me (and many other converts and also born Muslims), sitting at a table where alcohol is flowing freely could be a temptation and put me in a position I don’t want to be in. I used to drink and I used to enjoy getting drunk.

Also by not being present it could prevent you from being in confrontational situations.
It’s not permissible in Islam to abuse someone whether that’s physically or verbally and a lot of ‘rules’ in Islam are preventative measures. Sometimes when people are drinking, people become over sensitive, arguments start and things are said/done which are later regretted.

These are my thoughts and as I said there’s no definitive answer as far as I know.

I feel pretty strongly about not eating animals, but refusing to sit at a restaurant table where other people are eating animals is not going to stop them doing it.

It’s not about stopping other people from doing it, doesn’t bother me that other people drink. I don’t abstain from drinking alcohol for ethical reasons, it’s purely my personal religious beliefs and something I choose not to do and don’t want to be around. My best friends aren’t Muslim and drink, it doesn’t bother me, I just don’t want to be around it.

I can assure you curry that if someone on here said "never met a sanctimonious judgemental, muslim teetotaller" or words similar, someone on here would be shouting "islamaphobe". Ridiculous i know but it's got to work both ways surely

It’s not islamophobic at all! There are unfortunately lots of sanctimonious, judgemental Muslim teetotaller’s

By saying this would be considered as islamophobic and how ‘ridiculous’ it is just minimizes actual islamophobia and makes it look like it’s just hysteria with no basis. I’m sure that wasn’t what you were trying to do though..

Also if you agree that it’s ‘ridiculous’ to say that comment is islamophobic then why do you think it’s christianphobic? That’s just as ridiculous. Surely it works both ways...no?

butchy it was the implication, sometimes that's all it takes., but anyway forget it, maybe i was too sensitive, it's not worth arguing over.

violetsue You getting defensive doesn't explain away your statement. All I was pointing out to you is how ridiculous it would be to take your blanket statement at face value. To your credit the OP did much the same with the premise of this thread wrt "Islamic thinking" what the hell does that even mean! But anyway, the point is that people need to be mindful of what they say, write and think.

gamer yes i understand that, all religions have certain peculiarities, it's just i have noticed, that when it's a thread about Christians, if anyone makes any reference to Islam or Hinduism etc, (as a religion to compare with,) you get shot down and accused of being some kind of "phobe" or whatever and why bring that into it, we weren't talking about that. In other words if it's a bit of a derogatory thread about Christianity, other religions are never allowed to be brought into it. Just something i've noticed.

It is strange that the Muslim teachings eschew the consumption of alcohol and yet apparently so many stores/corner shops/garages which appear to be owned/operated by Muslims are more than happy to profit by selling it.