.. or does this Islamic thinking on alcohol seem pointless?

[DefinitelyMaybePossibly]

A group of us from work went out for lunch today. One of our group asked if we were drinking alcohol, because if we were, our Muslim colleague couldn't come. It wasn't an issue because none of us were. Since we went to a restaurant where all customers, even if in separate groups sit around the same long tables, other customers on our table were consuming alcohol. AIBU to think it's a bit pointless theologically to make a point of only coming if your group don't drink alcohol when others sitting as close or even closer are drinking?

I have been out with other muslim friends and alcohol consumption hasn't been an issue. So perhaps someone with an Islamic background can explain the theological thinking here.

Maybe in past experiences the colleague has had people be disrespectful of their beliefs or tried to bully/pressure them into drinking or even worse spiked their drink with booze. Even another obvious one of them being from a family of alcoholics- so many reasons outside of their faith.

I agree with other posters about different people will interpret things differently to suit their own life style.

I have not drunk for years; there are circumstances which mean that I might need to drive at any time and I have always been absolute about not driving unless I am stone cold sober.

But I can still join my team from time to time in the pub and enjoy an alcohol free beer; the traces of alcohol left in that don't worry me, any more than the traces of alcohol caused by fermentation after eating too much fruit.

Hoppingreen I see your point but one person's family can't control that person's colleagues' private life.

I haven't experienced this with Muslims, but I have worked with Christians who felt they couldn't participate in activities that included stuff banned by their religion - like - I had a Jehovah's Witness colleague who had to leave the room if there was a birthday cake in it.

The difference is that in this case, it's the equivalent of the JW saying 'I don't do birthdays so no one else can as well'. I've never met a JW who has done anything other than quietly stand up and step out of the room whilst someone else is blowing out candles. We have quite a few JW students in our school, and they all stand up and go and get a book and sit and read whilst we're singing happy birthday to someone. I've never had a JW parent come in and demand that we cancel the Christmas concert or ban people bringing in cupcakes to share on a birthday.

But they didn't demand it was cancelled they just asked for clarification in advance

Maybe they had assumed (correctly in this case) that nobody would be likely to be drinking (safe bet in some work circles for a lunch where you go back to the office after) but to avoid any awkwardness at the table just checked with colleague in advance

My DH works with a Muslim man. He will not attend office outings if they go to restaurants that serve alcohol.
It does limit where they go.

The difference is that in this case, it's the equivalent of the JW saying 'I don't do birthdays so no one else can as well'.

It isn't. My understanding is that the Muslim colleague didn't say "no one can drink". He/she said "will there be drinking" because they were trying to clarify so they could opt out in advance if this was the case. Another person in the team thought that it would be nice to not drink so the outing would be inclusive.

I don't think that's super unreasonable.

Chocolatear If I was your DH’s colleague I might - perhaps - accept the this man having a veto on official events, but not if it’s someone leaving or something of that sort. If he prefers not to come that’s his choice.

I find it hilarious how half the people can't understand why the girl would still want to go to this Xmas lunch if no one is drinking.

So she can still socialise with you? She probably doesn't care about the strangers who will be in close proximity drinking away? Because she doesn't know them?

I don't get why people on here read so deeply into this. It's not complicated

Just accept her choice, however unfathomable to you, and move on.
And remember her choice hasn't in any way hampered yours.

I'm another one who doesn't particularly enjoy being round people who are drinking. Harsh perhaps, but to me they become loud, the conversation becomes very dull indeed and hard to engage in if one's sober.

A few years back, my employer basically banned the claiming of alcohol on expenses and for Xmas parties. Much better atmosphere now. I can totally understand why the Muslim colleague would want to check.

Fwiw, Jehovah's Witnesses have very different beliefs and ideas about stuff to Christian groups: lump them together with caution.

Gosh. I wonder if my Roman Catholic friends/ family want me to remove my coil before eating with them

The majority of RCs I am sufficiently close to to have discussed birth control are not practising the rhythm method themselves, so I’d say you’re safe.

I’ve yet to socialise with a muslim who wouldn’t attend an event where alcohol was being imbibed.

My guess would have been that OP’s colleague was reluctant to attend a meal where alcohol was consumed in case the other attendees drank the well dry and then attempted to split the bill.

That would explain not giving a fuck about what other people from a different group sitting at the same table were doing.

There have been a few threads related to unfair bill splitting recently.

My experience has been mixed- some Muslims will not go to a place where alcohol is served, others will.

It's fine for any religion to have its own rules, as long as they don't affect people who aren't living by that religion. Anyone planning a works do should go where the majority are happy to go. Plans should never be changed because of one person, whatever the reason.

Plans should never be changed because of one person, whatever the reason.

Agreed. Just imagine a scenario in which the majority want to go to bar X which isn't wheelchair accessible. The group should absolutely go to bar X and tell their wheelchair-using friend to suck it up. Because plans should never be changed because of one person.

@VladmirsPoutine that's awful. I would always try to accommodate my entire team because I want everyone to feel included and part of the team.

vlad obviously there would be an exception for that, but it's obvious i'm referring to "one person" as in objecting to alcohol. but whatever, you've took my words literally for the sake of an argument.
hintbean of course you want to accommodate the whole team, so if the whole team want alcohol and one doesn't, who are you going to accommodate?

I would always try to accommodate my entire team because I want everyone to feel included and part of the team

That's a nice thing to say but its not exactly realistic. If 19 people want to go to a bar and one won't be around alcohol, what are you going to do?

vlad obviously there would be an exception for that, but it's obvious i'm referring to "one person" as in objecting to alcohol. but whatever, you've took my words literally for the sake of an argument. hmm

Are you joking??

You actually said:

Plans should never be changed because of one person, whatever the reason. (my italics)

What’s not “literal” about that?

Plans should never be changed because of one person, whatever the reason.

I would be as happy NOT to go a bar as to go, as I’m take-it-or-leave-it about alcohol. So it’s hard to put myself in that position.

However, could everyone not go out for a nice meal first as a team and then whoever wants to go out on the lash afterwards?

There is an obvious difference between not going to the Old Pig and Whistle because it is inaccessible and the colleague in the wheelchair cannot go there and not going because it serves alcohol and the Muslim colleague chooses not to - out of personal preference or because her family do not want her to.

Well said vlad and andrew.

I’m a Muslim and I guess I’m pretty ‘strict’. Cover head to toe, don’t drink/smoke, pray 5 times a day etc etc you get the picture.

I don’t go to restaurants that serve alcohol and would not sit at the same table as someone drinking alcohol as I believe it is not allowed in my religion. Alcohol is prohibited..to drink, sell, sit at the same table etc is not allowed (That’s my interpretation anyway, I appreciate everyone is different)

However I wouldn’t dream of telling work colleagues they weren’t allowed or even hinting that they shouldn’t. My religion and the way I follow it is my choice it is my choice not to sit with people when they are drinking and it shouldn’t impact anyone else. I’ve been in this position with leaving do’s (don’t attend Xmas lunch regardless of where it is) I made my excuses and didn’t attend, I never mentioned it was because of alcohol as my colleagues are so lovely I know they would of changed the location and not drunk and to be honest I know for many of them it would of sucked the joy and relaxation out of the evening!

As so many people here are saying, Muslims are all different. Some strict, some not, some drink, some don’t. It does get tiring reading posts from people saying ‘what other religion do you know that stops other people from doing X’

Yes you get the odd idiot who tries to impose their beliefs on other people but the large majority of Muslims would not.

Never met a sanctimonious judgemental Christian teetotaller then? lol, the most anti drinking people I have ever met were evangelical Christians. I've worked with loads of Muslims and not one had an issue with other people drinking.

I know posters don’t do it intentionally but when comments like the below are made it is frustrating because people with little or no knowledge of Islam will think this is a normal attitude amongst Muslims.

Burpees

Some of them will not eat food I have prepared because I am "an infidel" so I am unclean and any food touched by me is "haram"

That is absolutely disgraceful and I hope you told those people to do one. Food can not become haram by anyone touching it, that’s so offensive and ridiculous and I’m sorry you were made to feel inferior.

Rebecca

I've also come across Muslim men who won't set foot in a pub Muslim women who sit in the back seat of the car when their husband is driving

Again, sitting in the back seat is nothing to do with Islam. Perhaps the women you have seen want to sit with their child or feel sick in the front? But please don’t think this is a ‘thing’. It’s really, really not.