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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Essex Police helping women to stay with abusers

235 replies

Allthecoolkids · 13/12/2017 16:50

AIBU to think this is a really really shit poster??

I can’t link to it but they posted it to FB this afternoon.

Essex Police helping women to stay with abusers
OP posts:
Afternooncatnap · 14/12/2017 19:42

Whatever people's reasons to stay, it is not for us as a society to judge the victim, we should support them.

NameChanger22 · 14/12/2017 19:44

What is your definition of supporting them?

BertieBotts · 14/12/2017 19:44

The reasons women can't leave are numerous and complex. It would be impossible to explain them in a handy soundbyte although if you have been reading the thread closely, you'll see many mentioned here.

If you're really interested in learning about this, the book Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft is excellent at explaining the dynamics of abuse although it centres more on the abuser's behaviour than the victim's, it does also help to explain the victim's mindset and outlook as well.

It is usually nothing to do with resources so the year and the country have nothing to do with this question, although actually resource related reasons to be unable to leave are actually growing in the current economic climate.

Maybe if I have more time this evening I will come back and outline some of the reasons but first I have to feed myself :)

Pengggwn · 14/12/2017 19:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBotts · 14/12/2017 20:04

I'm actually really interested and heartened by the posts from curry and sockamnesty showing support for these services. You're definitely making me think about it differently when I'd previously perhaps taken a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Flowers

The issue of framing is helpful. I have done it myself on MN threads. Recommended that posters read books about DV because they outline the real signs somebody is changing. It isn't a lie, because the books I've recommended do. But it's a selective truth because I know that in reality the chances an abuser will change are extremely slim, and the poster won't find what she wants to hear within the book. However, information such as that contained in these books can help empower women and enable them to see their situation more clearly.

I am still worried it's a crap advert sending dangerous validation, and I do worry about services which specialise in this if they're receiving separate funding from other DV services.

It also makes me feel sceptical that we're seeing these services come in just as other DV services are really feeling the pinch from cuts and have already been reduced massively, because it does feel, like I said earlier, as though there are massive gaps and they're being filled with - basically anything. It is heartening to hear that (at least the services posters here have experience with) are being run by people who fully understand the mechanisms of abuse and have women's safety at their forefront.

I do still have some concerns - that if services such as these become more popular or are shown to be successful, that less well-informed people may be tasked with running them, perhaps for example religious organisations which value the unit of marriage more than women's wellbeing might start offering similar kinds of services and for this to legitimise that. What's niggling at me too, (sorry to make this political, I've really tried to hold off this comment,) is also that a narrative that staying together is better than splitting up fits very well with a certain conservative ideology, and I would hate that to be where support of this type goes towards, or used as justification for more cuts to women's DV services. I can fully believe that right now it's harm reduction and only the same kinds of safety plans etc that Women's Aid and so on already encourage women to make even if they do not wish to leave, my unease over this is where it goes and particularly what message it sends if this ends up being the predominant message.

DioneTheDiabolist · 14/12/2017 21:05

I hope that the message it sends is: if you are a victim of DV, you can get support. Whether you leave or stay. I think the title of the OP is misleading, it's not "Helping women to stay", it's helping women who stay.

Allthecoolkids · 14/12/2017 21:23

Dione that’s better wording. I struggled to know how to put it.

I don’t think that poster sends the right message, I just don’t. I think it paints a false message of respectability as safety. I don’t see other forces or Women’s Aid adopting this sort of message. I am all for supporting women but to me this specific poster is wrong.

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 14/12/2017 21:29

WA will indeed help women who stay. They recognise that the woman in the abusive situation knows the risk better than anyone else and unfortunately sometimes it is safer to stay than leave immediately. Sad

Allthecoolkids · 14/12/2017 21:31

That’s not what I said.

I said I don’t see them putting out this specific message.

OP posts:
NeedsAsockamnesty · 14/12/2017 23:48

Yes they do put that message out op

www.womensaid.org.uk/the-survivors-handbook/making-a-safety-plan/

Woman’s aid along with another organisation that I would rather not name due to privacy reasons were actually one of the very first respectable services to use the you don’t have to leave approach.

It was back in the 90’s that they were attempting to train other services away from the hostile bullying you must do as we say approach.

I was reminded only a few days ago by a poster on here just how useful the you don’t have to approach is when she pointed out to me that over many threads (that I recall other posters being quite aggressive with their you just leave approach) I had just respectfully heard her reasons for not being able to leave right then did some safety planning stuff with her sometime later she did leave, because she had the confidence to and the knowledge that she had safely planned it and it was her choice.

I got flamed on that thread by thoughtless idiots yet that poster and thousands of other woman and children have been kept safe by those methods and a great many of them credit the approach with saving their lives.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 14/12/2017 23:55

Also fwiw.

A female victim of domestic abuse is at the most risk at the point of leaving and for the first year afterwards, it is significantly more dangerious to her if she leaves at a crisis point.

All this bastard high drama that loads of posters use when they come up with stuff like
omg you must leave now right now it’s essential if you don’t, then you don’t love your kids.
Actually places a woman more at risk of serious violent assault or murder.

curryforbreakfast · 15/12/2017 09:50

I'm actually really interested and heartened by the posts from curry and sockamnesty showing support for these services. You're definitely making me think about it differently when I'd previously perhaps taken a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Thanks for sharing your experiences

Thanks for that Bertie, seriously. I may just look like an argumentative dick, but this is what I do with my days (and nights!) and it really matters to me.
There are a lot of people who think that if a woman doesn't just leave then she's a fool, an idiot, she deserves what she gets, she must get something out of it and other horrible things. Not only is that completely unfair, it also puts women off looking for help or talking to people, because they are afraid of those judgements.

I recently had a service user who was 70 years old. After almost 50 years of DV she was seriously thinking of leaving, for the first time. She was terrified of the idea but starting to think it might be possible for her at last, she had never before felt like that. She had never had her own money, or access to family money, had never lived alone, had never really considered that she could do, until then. Soon after her husband was incapcitated by a stroke and she decided to stay after all.
There are thousands upon thousands of stories of why women don't just leave. Anything we can do do help, support etc we have to do, no matter what choices people make.

curryforbreakfast · 15/12/2017 09:56

Maybe I don't understand the reasons why women can't leave, in this country, in 2017. What reasons are there?

So many reasons. Ones I dealt with very recently;:

1/on a spouse visa so unable to just leave, legally.
2/Sharing the care of an extremely disabled child with their abuser, knowing they would be unable to cope alone so choosing their childs needs above their own (as they see it)
3/ no money to leave, no space in refuge, council help negligable (this is something we see a lot)
4/ risks being disowned by entire family if leaves husband, told to put up with abuse and blamed for it.
5/ afraid that abuser will damage children in a split and get residency of them

I could go on all day, literally.

rightsofwomen · 15/12/2017 10:41

I know this is ridiculous, but post divorce from my abusive ex I now find myself struggling to deal with the fact that our DS has to spend time with his Dad when I'm not there. There are times when I've wished (as awful as it was) that I could at least be with DS and shield him. That's just my maternal instinct.

curryforbreakfast · 15/12/2017 10:44

Its not at all ridiculous, it's a very common feeling. Hope things worked out for you

Eltonjohnssyrup · 15/12/2017 10:48

I'd add to curry's list religious and cultural reasons. Some people genuinely believe it's something normal you just have to put up with as your duty or that they will be going to hell if they believe as it is their obligation to obey their husband. It's easy for the non-religious to scoff, but some people truly believe they will be tortured in burning fires for eternity if they do. It's a bit ignorant to think people will abandon their entire belief systems just because a nice lady in a cardigan tells them they should.

Afternooncatnap · 15/12/2017 11:21

Some people have also been abused their whole lives and so just accept another abusive male in their life as the norm.

If it was that easy to just leave for every one, then there wouldn't be so many people in abusive relationships.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 15/12/2017 13:30

For al the posters saying "It's an important message but the wording is clumsy" or words to that effect - is that not the whole fucking point?? This message should have been carefully thought through, the implications considered and they would have been better publishing nothing than something that says quite blatantly to so many people "We've fixed Sheila's husband because abusers can change and look how happy they are together now"

What's more if they are promising women that they can keep them safe whilst staying in an abusive relationship then I think there's a whole heap of people around the world who would like to know HOW they can do that because it would be bloody revolutionary. Unless of course they're lying and they're actually doing the bare minimum.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 15/12/2017 14:27

We can’t even promise we can keep woman safe if they leave.

All we can do is use the available resources to try and do so, but there would be an outrage if we were clear about that on our posters

curryforbreakfast · 15/12/2017 14:30

We can’t even promise we can keep woman safe if they leave

Nobody can promise them that, in fact what we can say is "you re very likely not to be safe when you leave" as its more risky statistically than staying.

Nobody is promising anybody safety at all. The idea is to help improve safety with intervention, not promise any absolutes.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 15/12/2017 14:43

That was my point Curry

curryforbreakfast · 15/12/2017 14:49

I know, I'm agreeing with you and responding to the same poster you were.

christmasrage · 15/12/2017 18:01

I think it is potentially helpful. There will be couples who would sign up for this for whom it would be a first step. The perpetrator would have to acknowledge their abusiveness, and the victim can start to contemplate splitting.

Also the dynamics of an abusive relationship are extremely complex, and this may be a first step toward helping the victim change their own behaviour. Not victim blaming, just recognising that there is a two way dynamic.

NaturalBlondeYeahRight · 15/12/2017 18:07

Did you see today on the facebook page, Essex Police actually admitted that:

Hi there,

We have used clumsy language in this Facebook post that has clearly caused offence and we are sorry for that.

However the stories featured in the campaign are real stories. We heard from victims who wanted help to leave relationships and we heard from victims who would never have called police but have been able to have counselling, family therapy and other interventions that have made them feel safe.

Our message in this campaign isn't "stay in any relationship no matter how abusive". It's "if something is happening in your relationship even if you've been with someone for decades there is help you can get".

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