To feel like I have to justify being a SAHM

[Emlou07]

I fully expect this to go down like a lead balloon...

Do any other SAHM/House wives feel like they have to justify themselves when someone asks what you do?

I always feel like I need to say 'I'm a SAHM, but I'm not claiming any benefits. I also don't just sit around all day'

Not that there is anything wrong with being on benefits!

Yolo - the problem is, this view that we are "economic units" above all else plays into the patriarchy too. Women are the childbearing sex and there is no advantage to women in trying to minimise the physical and psychological reality of this.

Are you suggesting that a society where all children go into full time childcare at say, 6 months, so everyone can work full-time would be a happier society? It sounds very depressing to me.

Why do it yourself when you can pay someone minimal wages to do it for you. You get to keep your career, high wages, pension, perks & status.

Because I get to spend all day, every day with the people I love the most in the world. And who love me the most back.

I got on pretty well with my old boss. But it really didn't compare.

Because I felt I could do a better job and I preferred my dc's formative years to be spent with somebody who has my level of education.

I couldn't care less what other women do. If you want to and can stay at home then do! If you want to and can work PT/FT then do.

I suspect judgement comes from people who are not happy with their situation.

For me personally I love my little girls more than anything in the world but I couldn't spend seven days a week with them. I love my work, the confidence it gives me, my financial independence but mainly how it makes me feel. I know that SAHM feel the same way about being at home. They feel great about it.

I have nothing but admiration for all mums.

We are all just doing the best we can. I think sometimes that's forgotten

@glitterati, that's sort of the Scandic model (Netherlands they go at 3 months which is crazy IMO but hey ho) and they do pretty well. High reports of happiness.

@zzzzz, for example MPs, ministers, headteachers and CEOs make very influential decisions which change lives, and these positions need more women. Policy which improves women's lives won't happen if women all say "well my husband makes enough so I don't need to work, even when my kids are grown up" and men take all these positions. For example the Head of Department at the uni where my mum works (female) made a rule of no meetings after 5. A man in her role would have been less likely to do this, leaving parents with more difficult situations organising work around childcare. That's why it's a little sad and ironic women opting out of work saying "there's more to life than making money". Work is about so much more than money - look at the work MPs and public services and scientists do.

stretch you don’t need a sahp but you need facilitation of some kind. For many more men than women that’s in the form of a sahp. For some couples it’s a nanny/double nannies etc. But no unfacilitated parent is hitting the C suite because you cannot fly off at moments notice or stay late to talk to the west coast if you have no other childcare.

But that's the point, isn't it? It simply isn't the case that the WOHP would be unable to progress in their career without a SAHP. It's just that they would probably have higher childcare costs, offset by the second income.

Not if they thought such a lifestyle had a negative impact on their children.

Our dc spending 8 -10 hours a day in childcare of any description would not have been in their best interest. My dh would have had to look for other jobs as part time was simply not an option. He couldn't do his job part time. None of us could have coped with the stress that both of us working in our specific jobs would have caused. So no he couldn't have progressed.

DPs hours are unpredictable, and most of the time well outside childcare times. We have nobody to watch the kids so I can work, and childminders won’t take them as they’re all autistic and they don’t have the training. So how exactly am I supposed to work?

Yolo - I think you make some very good points and I would have said the same in my early twenties tbh. All I would say is you never know how you will feel after DC until they're here! All the theories in the world don't prepare you for this.

In ref to your earlier point, my DH really appreciates that I wanted to be at home because he lacked this growing up. He loves the fact that it comes naturally to me and that have the patience to do it and he very much sees his side of the deal as making sure we don't need to worry about money. We take the pressure off each other, but in different ways. I had a professional career before and of course he knows this.

It’s shit but seemingly inevitable these threads decend into SAHM v WOHM.... I guess because there is just enough truth in the stereotypes to set us all up on edge. Yes, as a FT working mum I do pay other people to do a lot of the day to day care - I still ‘raise’ my DD but it isn’t me helping her make the pictures I just stuck up on my fridge with pride. I don’t deny that. And if you SAH then no you are not out curing cancer or negotiating peace in the Middle East.....

But bottom line, while there may be a wrong way to raise children, there is no single ‘right’ way. There are as many ways to raise kids, and indeed be a productive member of society, as their are people on the planet.... if your kids are loved, cared for and know they are appreciated then they will probably be absolutely fine whether you stayed home or worked 60 hours a week....

Ultimately we all love our kids and are desperately trying to do our best by them as imperfect people in an inperfect world, and (in my experience in real life at least) secretly shitting ourselves that we have got it all wrong and are fucking up massively! Which is possibly why we get a bit judgey..... e.g. if you’re way is ‘right’ what does that say about me and my choices 🤔

I have attended several funerals of loved ones recently, friends and family who didn't talk about how much if any work they had done for an employer. They spoke about loved ones they were leaving behind and their future. Success in life is being happy in whatever you choose, not what job you do/did.
it was hardly mentioned in the Eulogies, apart from where they worked and for how long. More of a background, no thought about it being important in their life, more a means to an end.

Interesting, gilly. The last few funerals I have attended have been packed with the former work colleagues of the deceased. People spend a lot of time with their co-workers and often form very close bonds.

When my mum goes, we won't talk about work at her funeral at all. We'll focus on the family relationships and friendships instead. And while those things are hugely important, it makes me a little sad to think that we will be unable to talk about work as well, as I know that giving up her career to look after us as children has been her greatest, deepest, bitterest regret.

It isn't always true when people say that nobody ever regrets time that they didn't spend working. My mum does! She was happy enough when we were small, but now looks back on her life and feels that she wasted her time and squandered her potential. It would have been so much better for all of us if she had had the opportunity to maintain her career.

Whatever people choose to do, they should prioritise their own mental health highly, as an unhappy mother does not make a happy child.

And fwiw, I would be gutted if nobody mentioned the work I have done at my funeral!

I adore my family and friends, they are the most important part of my life. However, I'm also incredibly proud of what I've achieved at work and the lives that I have changed for the better. It's very meaningful to me, and I would hope that the work I have invested to make the world a little bit better might be acknowledged when I finally pop my clogs!

Brokenbiscuit

The one I attended today, mentioned the work, his best friend was a work colleague of 40 odd years.
Do you know though, none of the stories were about work, but what they had done in their spare time and the family time/social they had together.
Another spoke of the life of a family man, sons, daughters and grand children, the sport he enjoyed.
Once again, the place where he worked and how long etc were mentioned.
For some people work is equal to family, others see it as a means to an end, to pay bills etc.
I fit into the former, my success is being happy with my lot, I don't need a job to define me as a person, but we are all different.
There's nothing wrong with either, and I do take on board that I was wrong about the assumption that nobody would want their work detailed and acknowledged

My FIL died very recently and his work featured heavily in the eulogy and there was an incredible turnout among his ex colleagues. It can be a hugely important aspect of people's lives and identity.

That's not to say it has to be.

I'm a bit annoyed at the funeral comment (I've had a wine) When my mum died the church was full with the kids with special needs she worked with. The eulogy spoke a lot of the medical work she did too. My mum always worked full time. She was truly my best friend and I was heartbroken when she died. Being a good parent isn't restricted to staying at home. I'm thrilled for mums who can and want to stay at home, but please don't bash those who don't. It's unkind

I usually say I do nothing - mostly I sit around coffee shops or drink champagne in the after after my pilates class.....do I justify myself, NO!

Zzzz is that comment for me? Maybe bash isn't the word. Dig perhaps? Either way it was implying work wasn't an important part of one's life which I personally think isn't right. We all need a reason to get out of bed in the morning at the very least!

I don’t agree about the work / funeral. Some very moving, important elements have been recognising the positive effect on other people’s lives through work. Big halls filled with those who saw this side plus family and friends. Not that that’s a reason to work, but it happens.

Irl no one cares as much as they do here about sahm v working.

I don't know. Is it not just a case of conversation skills losing traction a bit?

One if the first and easiest questions to ask someone is what they do. And depending on their answer and your own situation, sometimes there's a bit of awkwardness in moving the conversation on.

Like, if you ask someone what they do and they turn out to be a university lecturer (as on another active thread at the moment) and you know nothing about that field, you might not know how to continue a conversation. Same thing if you are a sahm and the other person works full-time - you're both missing that common ground to get a conversation going and it can be awkward and hard to recover if you stumble at the outset. I don't think many people actually judge other people in the way we might think - sometimes, we project our own insecurities and assumptions on others. (of course, there are some that do)

I actually think I need to improve my conversation skills so I can bridge the gap smoothly in these situations.