To have thought we were well past calling gender dysmorohia a "mental illness"

[mostlikelyanunpopularviewpoint]

Just that really.

My male friend (who is quite young, early twenties) has recently confided in me that he is transgender and wishes to transition into presenting as female. As my friend still refers to himself as 'he' as he is not openly transgender, I shall refer to my friend as 'he' in this post to keep things simple.

What worries me is that he is feeling suicidal, has no support apart from my friend group and is generally in a need of a lot of help right now. Hence I feel annoyed at what happened.

One of our mutual friends who my friend has also told turned around and said to me, "he needs help, it's just a mental illness and he can recover from it and live a normal life."

AIBU to be unhappy at this statement and to think that although obviously this is a very controversial subject, with many different opinions on how integrate trans rights without compromising the rights of biological woman, in this day and age it is not acceptable to refer to someone who identifies as transgender as "mentally ill?"

Also would like to add that this thread is not to debate the rights of transgender people vs woman. I believe there are several threads like for this discussion at the moment, hence my AIBU pertains literally to the fact that I find it unacceptable to call being transgender "a mental illness" which implies it is temporary and is something a person can recover from!

I honestly thought this was discriminatory and that most people do NOT see being transgender as a mental illness?

I read a fairly interesting article by a psychiatrist who made the fairly smart comment that if gender dysphoria is a mental illness, it's about the only mental illness he has encountered that is generally almost entirely cured simply by providing the opportunity to change gender.

And if he had schizophrenic patients who's problems would be solved as simply and as easily if he referred to them as dogs, he'd start handing out dog collars the next day.

All the trans people I know (and quite a few, my friendship circle is very diverse)

Really? How many do you know? I rarely even see transgender people.

I totes agree with you, OP.

And so does Rachel Dolezal.

I read a fairly interesting article by a psychiatrist who made the fairly smart comment that if gender dysphoria is a mental illness, it's about the only mental illness he has encountered that is generally almost entirely cured simply by providing the opportunity to change gender

He must be a spectacularly bad psychiatrist, because gender dysphoria and its associated issues are very rarely "cured" by gender reassignment .

When the doctors have all got bored of playing god..allowing rediculous requests for people change their body to something it can simply never be....there will be a lot of unhappy/ depressed / suicidial people .then support groups will form ,suing the NHS for allowing it to happen,and not treating their mental illness.

Would you offer liposuction or a gastric band to an anorexic person?

No of course you wouldn't, because it's a mental illness.

There was a programme on quite a few years ago about people who wanted one of their limbs amputated. It was very uncomfortable watching. But although some doctors were prepared to do this operation thinking that would cure the problem most weren't.

I agree in a few years time there will be a lot of suing of the NHS for allowing these 'gender realignment' surgeries.

I think that's his point Curry, that gender reassignment is not the panacea it is claimed to be.

If you want treatment for transgender people available on the NHS then they must have some disorder of some kind. If you want them to be able to access therapy/counselling/surgery, they must have some kind of illness, because if they don't then what are they treating?

"I'd like some hormone therapy please!"
"What for?"
"Because I'm who I am as a person!"

Doesn't really work. I can't see why this isn't a point that both sides agree on.

VioletDaze
I read a fairly interesting article by a psychiatrist who made the fairly smart comment that if gender dysphoria is a mental illness, it's about the only mental illness he has encountered that is generally almost entirely cured simply by providing the opportunity to change gender.

Can you link to it? It should make for an interesting read.
As a treatment, it would also work as well for patients that believe they are Napolean - as long as the other 7 billion people on the planet can be coerced into going along with it.

Yes Mary, because if you are born a man you are a man.even if you remove your penis and have breast implants ,you are still a man...why people don't get this is beyond me..

He must be a spectacularly bad psychiatrist, because gender dysphoria and its associated issues are very rarely "cured" by gender reassignment

Indeed. Of course it can alleviate distress short term, but long term...well suicide rates are never higher among trans people than they are a few years AFTER transition.

Of course, transition IS the right treatment for some people, theres no denying that. But therapy, extensive therapy should be the first port of call. I remember reading a study done on a large number of detransitioned women..and it turned out that they had little therapy before hormones/surgeries. Some had even had none!

Chopping off someone penis or mutilating their vagina without extensive therapy and multiple disciplinary engagement should be criminal.

Really? How many do you know? I rarely even see transgender people.

Depends on the circles you move in really. Many of my friends are gay and as such I spend an awful lot of time on the LGBT scene. I know 2 transsexual women as friends. I have one transsexual woman as a family member. I know loads and loads of people calling themselves 'non-binary' and 'transgender' too. Sadly, so many friends who were previously just lesbian are now saying they are transgender. Breaks my heart to see as I know why they are doing this, the abuse they get as lesbians is horrendous. Ontop of this there is the added pressure for lesbians to shag people with penises. I wonder if this pressure contributes to the choice to 'transition' as they are not pressured into accepting people with penises as straight transmen. They can just get on with being female people attracted to female people, if they are 'trans' themselves.

Irkthepurist - slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-made-for-man-not-man-for-the-categories/

Zero interest in debating this, btw. I'm pretty certain the conversation will rapidly lurch into the deeply ableist and insulting towards both people like me, who do experience psychosis, and trans people.

I just quite liked the article and thought some people might find it an interesting read.

One thing that's not been mentioned is that mental disorders are also socially constructed and change over time. Consider the legions of Victorian "Hysterics" who couldn't see or walk due to their illness. What's interesting to me, is why at this particular historical moment, are we seeing so many people feeling like they are in the wrong body? There are historical examples of long term transvestism and "passing" as another sex, but it seems so much more prevalent now.

As a couple of previous posters have pointed out, the problem is not being born in the wrong body, the problem is the narrow definitions of the gender into which you were born. They are too limiting for both men and women. It makes me very uneasy how so many male to female trans people appropriate the very superficial markings of femininity and think that is what being a woman is about.

Swissie deserves a wee round of applause. Very good post.

It makes me very uneasy how so many male to female trans people appropriate the very superficial markings of femininity and think that is what being a woman is about.

This in spades.

I thought that article was both pseudoacademic and problematic VioletDaze, but the discussion in the comment section is very interesting. Especially as it was in 2014 and many things talked about have now come to be, also the participants manage to disagree with each other without insults and threats which is nice.

The author's argument is boiled down to 'be 'nice to people, even people you might think are weird' but one of the examples given is some of the borders drawn up when Africa or the Middle East were divided up between colonising/ imperialist powers. The consequences of those decisions have affected millions of lives subsequently often in extremely negative ways, including thousands, possibly millions dead or displaced in wars over the last 100 odd. This is not a great example to use if you want people to buy your argument that boundaries can and should be redefined.

Off the point, but 'the legions of Victorian "Hysterics" who couldn't see or walk due to their illness' are still with us, it's just known now as 'nonepileptic seizures of psychogenic origin'. It's a real and strongly disabling condition, and quite hard to distinguish from epilepsy.

I read a fairly interesting article by a psychiatrist who made the fairly smart comment that if gender dysphoria is a mental illness, it's about the only mental illness he has encountered that is generally almost entirely cured simply by providing the opportunity to change gender

That's not quite what he's saying though, Violet. He's saying that if you can find a harmless workaround for someone's mental illness, then FGS why wouldn't you implement it? Which I think most of us would agree with, with the emphasis on harmless. Clearly lots of MH conditions and illnesses can be alleviated or cured by lifestyle changes - stress being the most obvious one.

swissie, I agree. Thing is, in the 18th century if you wanted to wear makeup, high heels, velvet/frilly clothes and a wig, then you just looked like every other gentleman. You could sit around playing piano and composing sonnets and weeping over novels and no-one would bat an eyelid. I think the rigidity of current gender roles is largely to blame, although I also understand that it's easier to change yourself in order to fit in than it is to change society in order to fit you in.

Think of it as a 'psychological condition' then if you'd rather it was worded that way.

There is So much transgender atm. So, Yes, I am concerned that for some of these people, it IS a mental health issue. It is a very very serious thing to do, to transition, and I think too many people are jumping on the bandwagon, too lightly.
For some of them, trans is not right, it hides other mental health issues.

I think for some it is a psychological condition.

I also believe there is a sort of social contagion especially amongst younger people. It's seen as the trendy thing to be. Many people feel a bit lost as teenagers and I think a lot are just jumping on the bandwagon.

Reminds me of being in sixth form. A big group of friends all came out as lesbian. Fast forward 15 years, they're all married to men.

"entirely cured simply by providing the opportunity to change gender"
Really? Entirely cures?

What about all those who do actually transition. And then after the trauma of the actual journey, they are left, as a minority, judged, scathed, and then pop all the mental issues they have/had, wop, disappear?
I suspect not. I suspect that for some trans, there is a lot of unhappiness and resentment and instability, and MH issues, that never go away.

I mean its not exactly pleasant, any of it, is it? The whole process. Feeling you don't fit in, is never nice. Feeling you aren't right, don't fit in the body you are given. And then once trans process is finished, life becomes a breeze? NOT.

I'm not sure it's such an easy thing to cure