To have thought we were well past calling gender dysmorohia a "mental illness"

[mostlikelyanunpopularviewpoint]

Just that really.

My male friend (who is quite young, early twenties) has recently confided in me that he is transgender and wishes to transition into presenting as female. As my friend still refers to himself as 'he' as he is not openly transgender, I shall refer to my friend as 'he' in this post to keep things simple.

What worries me is that he is feeling suicidal, has no support apart from my friend group and is generally in a need of a lot of help right now. Hence I feel annoyed at what happened.

One of our mutual friends who my friend has also told turned around and said to me, "he needs help, it's just a mental illness and he can recover from it and live a normal life."

AIBU to be unhappy at this statement and to think that although obviously this is a very controversial subject, with many different opinions on how integrate trans rights without compromising the rights of biological woman, in this day and age it is not acceptable to refer to someone who identifies as transgender as "mentally ill?"

Also would like to add that this thread is not to debate the rights of transgender people vs woman. I believe there are several threads like for this discussion at the moment, hence my AIBU pertains literally to the fact that I find it unacceptable to call being transgender "a mental illness" which implies it is temporary and is something a person can recover from!

I honestly thought this was discriminatory and that most people do NOT see being transgender as a mental illness?

I know I am a woman as I just know. I can't pinpoint specific reasons. It is a feeling.

Were you born with a vulva & XX chromosomes? There's your reasons. It's not a feeling, it's a biological fact. Your sex is female, you're an adult human, so you're a woman.

The concept of gender - the idea that being a woman/girl or man/boy depends on which sex-role stereotypes you come closest to - is intrinsically sexist.

deleteordecay it has been said about all trans male to female on mumsnet before. I agree with you that it exists but I am not sure we should be hauling it into the headlights.

weebeasties are you saying you don't agree or you don't understand? I don't understand it, but I don't consider the fact that I don't personally understand it means that it isn't real. I don't know.
I am straight and I don't understand how someone who is gay feels, but I wouldn't say it isn't real, or suggest they get therapy or say that it is a fetish.

I think calling women "ciss" is outrageous, and I think bullying and threats of violence by some of the trans community is outrageous, and there are issues around jails and certain jobs, and it would be better to focus on specific things rather than the all encompassing "trans is wrong/just a mental illness and can be cured/all men are violent" arguments.

Wanting to be a spaniel is not irrational.

However, someone who is suicidal definitely is in need of urgent help.

So anorexia isn’t a MH illness then is it by your definition of MH illnesses, I honestly believe I am severely obese I see an obese person when I look in the mirror my body feels obese, it doesn’t feel like what the scales say. There’s no guarantee of a cure for any mental health illnesses btw

In any event, I don't think the "cure" seems to be that the person realises they were wrongthinking hmm the cure is drugs and surgery to enable the transgendering?

sometimes it is exactly that, and denying the possibility that people can be "cured" of gender dysphoria is incredibly dangerous. Because what you are saying is that every single person who has the idea that they are in the wrong body or should have been the opposite sex is correct and must have hormones/surgery etc.
When we know for a fact that people do change their minds, do realise they were wrong, and even transition backwards after wards.

This new idea that you should say to everyone with these thoughts: hey, you're ALL transgender and lets get on with changing you as soon as possible and lets celebrate this and not say its anything to do with mental illness is abhorrent and unfair to the people concerned.

bridgetreilly thanks for the link to the article on 4th wave now. Brilliant interview.

@santaiscoming2017 those two things are not comparable. You do know that sexual attraction is a thing because you (presumably) feel it to. Of course you can understand how homosexuals feel- it's the same as how you feel but for different people. I'm not attracted to blondes but don't disbelieve people who are, because sexual attraction is a universal thing. So sorry that's no comparison.

I am a female. I do not feel like a female. What does that even mean? My sex is based on my chromosomes and genitalia, not 'feels'. No woman I've ever asked knows what feeling like a woman means so I'm pretty sure it's not possible. So no I don't think a man can feel like a woman.

Plus it perpetuates the idea that male and female brains are different, which is archaic and sexist.

I think it disgusting everyone on here saying that transgender ppl have a mental illness it because of ppl like you who are the reason they don't feel comfortable in being who they want to be so does it mean that gay ppl have a mental illness too because they don't fancy the opposite sex like there suppose to can they be cured thru therapy aswell like u all say transgender ppl can im totally shocked at how ignorant ppl can be

@Lionness what does homosuxuality have to do with transgenderism?

Sorry should be @Lionnesss

MissSpaniel
I totally understand wanting to be a spaniel.

I am lucky because I am a Persian cat, even though j walk on two legs and I can speak.

From now on I shall,no longer be washing, cleaning or cooking but I will expect fuss and attention every evening from the humans just like the other Persian Cat in the house.

Lioness read my previous post.
Transgender activism is nothing like gay rights.
If men are able to be women there will be no need for sex discrimination law. Employers will be able to fire you for being pregnant for example. Pregnancy itself isn’t a protected state, it’s protected because only women can be pregnant

Most MNers are quite liberal. I don’t give a toss if a bloke wants to wear a dress or behave a certain way. I do care, quite a lot, about the erosion of hard won legal protections for women.

im totally shocked at how ignorant ppl can be

So am I. I'm shocked that people believe that a man can know in his head what it 'feels like' to be a woman.

OP, you had it right first time, it is NOT a mental illness. The depression and suicidal feelings are caused by a lifetime of KNOWING they are in the wrong body and by the idiotic opinions by self righteous, know it alls, such as on here. Good luck to you and your friend, sorry you've been replied to with such unknowledgable shit.

In my head- BDD and anorexia are curable and mental illnesses you can move on from.

Anorexia is the most deadly... people hardly every fully recovery from anorexia. Not fully. It is almost always there, as a shadow of control even then they are 'well'.

Well curry no, I wasn't saying that at all, was I, now? Your misrepresenting makes it impossible to have any kind of exchange of ideas with you so I am guessing you aren't interested in other people's opinions unless they are the same as yours. I did NOT say "every single person who has the idea that they are in the wrong body or should have been the opposite sex is correct and must have hormones/surgery etc". I did NOT DENY that "people do change their minds, do realise they were wrong, and even transition backwards after wards" and I did NOT say "you should say to everyone with these thoughts: hey, you're ALL transgender and lets get on with changing you as soon as possible and lets celebrate this and not say its anything to do with mental illness is abhorrent and unfair to the people concerned". You can continue this non debate with yourself now.

weebeasties it is comparable, being gay was thought of as a curable mental illness by society until recently.

I'm with Domani all you can do is be there for him and support him

weebeasties sorry I sent that to quickly. It is comparable in the sense that being gay was seen as a mental illness is what I meant, but otherwise I was making the point that just because you don't understand something does not mean that it does not exist or that it is not real. That applies to whatever example you want to give to it.

What I said does not perpetuate any myth about brains...

That would be "too" not "to"

As several people have said, dealing with his suicidal feels is the priority. He needs counselling for this at least. The Transgender element may resolve itself with this, or it may not. But having someone help him with his suicidal feelings is urgent, I'd say.

If his Transgender feelings continue, then counselling will help him with transition as well.

Support from friends is great, but he needs to be seeing an expert. Can he talk to his doctor in the first instance? They won't judge him.

Can I ask a question in all seriousness? Why do almost all transgender people seem to be men wanting to be women?

@santaiscoming2017 That homophobia was based on religious persecution that we got over as we evolved as a society. Not relevant.

@santaiscoming2017 we all know what it feels like to be attracted to people.

But nobody has been able to succinctly tell me what it feels like to be a woman. Until someone can, I'm afraid sexuality and gender identity are not comparable.

weebeasties what I was saying was that just because you don't understand it does not mean it is not real. Don't worry about the example if you cannot relate to it.