To have thought we were well past calling gender dysmorohia a "mental illness"

[mostlikelyanunpopularviewpoint]

Just that really.

My male friend (who is quite young, early twenties) has recently confided in me that he is transgender and wishes to transition into presenting as female. As my friend still refers to himself as 'he' as he is not openly transgender, I shall refer to my friend as 'he' in this post to keep things simple.

What worries me is that he is feeling suicidal, has no support apart from my friend group and is generally in a need of a lot of help right now. Hence I feel annoyed at what happened.

One of our mutual friends who my friend has also told turned around and said to me, "he needs help, it's just a mental illness and he can recover from it and live a normal life."

AIBU to be unhappy at this statement and to think that although obviously this is a very controversial subject, with many different opinions on how integrate trans rights without compromising the rights of biological woman, in this day and age it is not acceptable to refer to someone who identifies as transgender as "mentally ill?"

Also would like to add that this thread is not to debate the rights of transgender people vs woman. I believe there are several threads like for this discussion at the moment, hence my AIBU pertains literally to the fact that I find it unacceptable to call being transgender "a mental illness" which implies it is temporary and is something a person can recover from!

I honestly thought this was discriminatory and that most people do NOT see being transgender as a mental illness?

but its not something that cant be changed any more is it?
So its not denying reality?

Seriously just let people live how they want to live and call them by the pronoun they want. Its just incredibly hurtful and disrespectful not to. Whatever you personally believe, misgendering someone is so rude. As is saying to someone you dont know very well 'oh its just a mental illness' Its a seriously horrible thing to say. If you believe that its up to you and if someone directly asks you or brings up a discussion about it its probs okay to talk about.... but to just go up to a trans person or say to a trans person whos just come out to you 'its just a mental illness' is so so hurtful and cold and rude.

You sound a lovely friend to have, and I'm sorry your friend is struggling so much. Of course it would be ridiculously insensitive to say 'this is all in your head' (basically 'get over it') and no more helpful than saying that to someone with anorexia or PND. Mental illness is real illness, not a choice.

I have a FtM friend who goes through periods of deteriorating down into depression which can lead to them becoming suicidal. At those times gently talking about that they're feeling too unwell to function can help them go back and get their meds re adjusted as needed, and supporting them to get help can help, although often it needs to be gentle and patient over a few days or weeks before they recognise they're in a bad patch again.

I understand my friend's very real emotional distress, some of which is because of the mental illness they struggle with on top of other things, some of which is a whole lot of unhappiness about identity and trying to process a really horrible childhood and difficult family relationships. I support them as much as I can and completely support that transitioning in terms of living as a man relieves that distress for them at least to a measure. I do however find it hard that he has recently started on hormone therapy as I'm worried about what it is going to do to his body long term, or how he will cope if he needs to detransition in the future, and I am aware from what he's told me that he has intentionally told professionals what he knows will lead them to give him those treatments quickly rather than be honest with them which may have led to different advice. I haven't shared my reservations with him, it really wouldn't help.

It's a very complex situation, he's in a fragile place, it's holding his hand while he tries to find his way through it. I do think a more supportive therapist looking at other things I know cause him PTSD and anxiety and the horrible memories he carries may have helped more than everything being focused on whether or not he should be helped to medically transition. It seems as if he's very focused on that if he could just do it all, and go all the way, he'd find the relief he is desperate for.

People with mental illness often have more than one condition. For example your friend could have gender dysphoria as well as depression, low self-esteem...
Can mental illnesses really be cured? My experience is that medication can help control but the illness always lurks to varying degrees over a lifetime.

It is a mental illness. It’s believing a thing despite proof to the contrary.
It’s no different to a white person believing they are black, a thin person believing they are fat. It’s a delusional belief.
The person involved needs sympathetic therapy, not for society to tell them they’re a woman because they think so, any more than an anorexic needs to be enabled to be thin.

And perhaps, just perhaps, if we weren’t all so caught up on what women and men SHOULD do in terms of dress and behaviour then this would be less of an issue.

Seriously just let people live how they want to live and call them by the pronoun they want. Its just incredibly hurtful and disrespectful not to. Whatever you personally believe, misgendering someone is so rude

Why is it ok for trans people to insist on calling us cis-women then?

OP do you mean gender dysphoria? If so, quote from NHS website: "gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It's not a mental illness. Some people with gender dysphoria have a strong and persistent desire to live according to their gender identity, rather than their biological sex.

I know one person who has transgendered male to female, and they haven't switched back, and they have said that for many the suicidal feelings are linked to how the transgender person is regarded by society at large (quite a few posters on mumsnet included, clearly) and from the constant threat of violence.

Of course thinking your body is all kinds of wrong is a mental illness.

There should be quotation marks at the end of the first paragraph.

Just to respond to the "cis" comment too, I cannot stand the "cis" label either, but to be fair, from the other side saying all transgender people have a sexual fetish isn't helpful either.

How do people know what gender their brain feels like? How does a man know what a womens brain would feel like? He can't can he? He has the idea that he should have been a woman, but that is not the same thing
Exactly, which is why I find it very hard to get my head around, because although I could understand them not feeling quite "right", they just can't say they feel like women because they don't know what being a woman feels like. They're talking about how they think being a woman feels. I'm a woman and even I can't even explain what feeling like a woman is!

But I would not refuse to call them 'she' or by a female name- changing one word in my vocabulary could make this person feel a lot better and respected
It would be unkind to call a transwoman "he" to his face, so it's better to pander to their delusion perhaps, but if discussing them I will refer to them as "he". I have a M-F trans friend who I've known pre and post transitioning, and I would never dead name him or call him "he" to his face, but he is still a man (despite surgery and hormones) and I will refer to him as such otherwise.

f so, quote from NHS website: "gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It's not a mental illness

Then the NHS is WRONG. (not unusual for them). It is an internationally recognised mental illness. It is in the DSM.

for many the suicidal feelings are linked to how the transgender person is regarded by society at large (quite a few posters on mumsnet included, clearly) and from the constant threat of violence.

And all over the world, many many women live with a constant threat of violence. But as a general rule, people don't seem to mind too much about that.

How do you present as a woman? I'm sitting here in a pair of straight jeans, plain jumper an t-shirt, a pair of Chelsea boots, no make up and short hair.

Not sure exactly. According to tra's it mostly involves dresses, skirts and make up. One transwoman on Twitter smelt nail polish and 'knew' from that point on that they were female.

And perhaps, just perhaps, if we weren’t all so caught up on what women and men SHOULD do in terms of dress and behaviour then this would be less of an issue.

Agree, gender stereotypes are so so damaging and this is just one example of how. Maybe people wouldn't feel like they were in the 'wrong body' if society didn't constantly send the message that women do/wear x and men do/wear y and there's something wrong with you if you don't conform.

You guys remeber when homosexuality was a mental illnesses because it was thought that only not mentally fit beings should fancy own gender as their speices would die out as unable to reproduce...

*thought to be damn phone

The problem I have (along with the impending erasing of all sex discrimination legislation) is that when you drill down into the ‘what makes you think you’re a woman’ idea it reveals some really misogynistic stereotypes.

Wearing nail polish and dresses isn’t what makes a woman. I rarely do, many women don’t. Men should be able to wear dresses and nail polish if they want to - dress codes are largely societal conditioning, not an innate ‘female’ thing. Dressing as a woman is expected to dress is not what makes you a woman.

Then the idea that you think like a woman. Well I ask how do women think? This whole ‘male/female brain’ thing has been roundly debunked. And when you ask ‘how do women think’ you again drill down to a set of stereotypes. There is NO one way women think.

What a lot seems to boil down to is labelling women with a set of very stereotypical and often untrue/damaging features then appropriating those features.

You cannot change your sex (unless you’re a snail or certain types of fish.)
You can refuse to conform to the crap society foists on ALL of us - men can’t be caring, women can’t be strong, it’s all bollocks and it harms us all.

But we cannot and must not say that anyone male who thinks they are female is female. Because the reality is provably different. And if being female is no longer a protected characteristic our sex discrimination legislation is dead.

curryforbreakfast
Sorry to be picky but ADHD is not a mental illness. I say this as someone who has it.

What Tetleys said, 1 million% and im speaking from for very close personal experience of someone who insisted they were the opposite sex from the age of 12, only realising after they had mutilated them self that it was not the answer to their problems. The current trans movement terrifies me, not because I’m bothered about men in women’s spaces, but because I’ve seen first hand the fallout when all other options are not explored first.

from the other side saying all transgender people have a sexual fetish isn't helpful either.

Nobody has said all transgender people have a fetish. But autogynephilia is very real and more common than people think.

This was actually made by a transwoman, if this doesn't scream fetish I don't know what does. They do exist.

I have transgender friends and used to have a transgender roommate. I call them by the name and pronoun they wish because I'm not an arsehole, but I don't believe they have become a new sex.

Would you support a friend who believed they were a different race/ ethnicity? It's really no different.

Racial appropriation is now considered a bad thing, but wearing the steriotypical costume and doing steriotypical mannerisms of the opposite sex isn't considered gender or sex appropriation. Why not? This has confused me for ages.

In short: yes I'll be nice but no I don't agree.

curry I have done a quick check online re the DSM and it looks like a distinction is made in relation to whether the client feels distress in relation to the wishing to be a different gender, if no distress (about that) then it would be evaluated differently.

In any event, I don't think the "cure" seems to be that the person realises they were wrongthinking the cure is drugs and surgery to enable the transgendering?

That's disturbing Delete.

What I don't understand about the trans issue is the individual wants to change sex (shit use of words there, sorry) but also expects everyone else to adapt to confirm their change.

It is almost like supporting a delusion.

You guys remeber when homosexuality was a mental illnesses because it was thought that only not mentally fit beings should fancy own gender as their speices would die out as unable to reproduce.*

A historical wrong that has been righted, with a couple of key differences.

1. Most mammalian species and many birds seem to have a set proportion of individuals who engage in homosexual behaviour - most scientists believe it has a positive impact somewhere (a bit like allopatry.)
2. Homosexuality is not demonstrably incorrect. A gay person is sexually attracted to their own sex - there’s no logical error there.
3. A gay person being married has no negative effect in the population or any individual. It’s cost neutral to society. Dave and bob being married has no effect on Sarah and marks marriage.

However, if bob decides he’s a woman and gets the law changed so that men can get pregnant too, there is no legal basis for arc discrimination law. Sarah gets pregnant and is fired and that’s tough.
Bob decides that men can now enter a women’s prison because he’s a woman now and is housed with a vulnerable female population while still possessing a working penis. Sarah objects but is prosecuted for inciting hatred.

The trans rights movement is not akin to the gay rights movement. It’s a clever bit of piggybacking though so that people don’t want to be seen as being intolerant

Arc? Sex.