To pull out because of programme at Christmas concert

[Whyamistillawake]

I've been going to a choir since September, most of which has been practising for the Christmas concert this week.

We've just had the final rehearsal in which they've introduced a duet which us two people (not including me) singing 'Baby it's cold outside'.

Am I overreacting to pull out? At the moment I don't see how I can sit there through it.

Edith there’s a really interesting thread running on here just now about how many women were killed at the hands of men in 2016. You might want to have a read of that before you say ‘women are not victims or inferiors’.

*how many women were killed at the hands of men in England, Wales and NI

@Pumperthepumper

There are lots of examples in pop culture of things that do normalise rape or promote a creepy attitude to women. By equating innocent stuff like this with more problematic work it minimises the real problems. It also means the people will dismiss real complaints because they will assume it's just more manufactured controversy.

Just because other versions have been shown, the below is the original 1949 film clip as far as I can see (although it's in colour, is that right?)

www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/969093/Neptune-s-Daughter-Movie-Clip-Baby-It-s-Cold-Outside.html

I disagree. ‘Real problems’ is a massive spectrum of ‘stuff’. It’s fine to say ‘actually, that’s not ok’ about any one of them. Like the scale of sexual harassment allegations, it’s fine to say ‘a grope by a male colleague is not ok’ without it minimising someone else’s rape.

I also disagree with your use of ‘manufactured’, as if the OP woke up this morning looking for something to be offended by. You don’t have to be particularly gifted with imagination so appreciate that lack of consent could be a genuine issue for a woman, and that she may well have valid reasons for not wanting any part of it.

Which, if it is the original, makes it clear the drink is spiked and its not a jokey line. Happy to be contradicted if this is a fake.

"Just because other versions have been shown, the below is the original 1949 film clip as far as I can see (although it's in colour, is that right?)"

Both my clip and yours are from Neptune daughter. It's a colour film. That's the joke- the song works both ways.

Are you seriously saying that either of them are about date rape?

Cross post. Apparently you are!

At The end of the Mary was raped by someone she thought was Angel there fore date raped with some kind of drug Joseph just saw his chance with a pregnant whore and made her at 39 week pg travel 100s of mile riding on donkey.

How are either OK in any way?!

I don't think you should do anything that makes you uncomfortable, OP. If you don't want to stand on a stage clapping along to this song, then you shouldn't.

It seems to me that every single time a woman takes any kind of stand around her personal integrity, there is a kind of person who will announce she is over thinking, needs to get a grip or wants to point out that someone, somewhere is worse off than her. I don't understand why but I do wish they'd stop.

I heard Mudd’s ‘Show Me You’re a Woman’ on the radio the other day. I couldn’t quite believe what I was hearing, but remember quite clearly singing along to it as a child.

This might just be the most ridiculous thing I've read today. Congrats OP.

And yet this thread has been done to death over the years.

It's not spiked. People said that all the time about cocktails in that era. It was a compliment to the maker. They were meant to make you squiffy. Lots of references to making a mean martini. They didn't mean going light on the gin.

I think you have totally missed the point of the lyrics.

You’ll never be a victim Edith? What’s your secret?

In the clip the woman tastes the drink, says 'what's in this drink' and puts it to one side.

I challenge anyone to look at either clip and say either would be acceptable in a film today (as humour).

That said, it was of its times and times have changed. I agree there are many interpretations of the song. I don't think anyone who sees the original movie would say it's anything other than two people) one male one female) really pushing the boundaries of consent.

I'm sure there's a way of singing it (particularly with actions) which would bring an innocent flirtation interpretation over. That's not what I saw in the choir practice though.

Whyamistillawake
is not us @SilverySurfer*

Yes, I know, It's your typo but assumed you meant 'is' - not sure how that changes you being way OTT about it.

You still haven't explained why you say you're not part of the duet in the OP and then say I don't want to be singing the duet! Well you won't be will you

Like I said - pull out - let them sing what they want.

Someone initially suggested my issue was I was upset I had my been chosen for the duet. My comment initially was clarifying that it was the sing I had the issue with. My fault for not being clear in my OP but I don't think I've been contradictory at all.

SilverySurfer The OP was confirming two things. 1) That the lyrics were the issue and 2) That no, it wasn't because she was put out at not being chosen for the duet that she was considering pulling out.

So not a contradiction.

OP, if the duet’s a late addition then it can be taken out of the programme. Write the director a polite note saying “while not everyone agrees a number of people find the lyrics problematic.” Then he or she can decide if they want to proceed with the song.

I think in your position I’d politely excuse myself from the concert. Give the director the information they need though. Imagine if the concert is spoilt by people walking out - and they might. I might well. If I saw this in the programme I’d leave early or not attend.

I agree with Edith. This sort of thing is turning women into laughing stocks. It's like Sleeping Beauty all over again.

I think the thing with Baby It’s Cold Outside was that she wanted to stay but was worried about how it would look to others - “what the neighbours might think” - what she “should” do vs what she wanted to do. The whole point of the song is surely that she is not really making much of an effort to leave - just enough to “say she tried” when she has to explain herself to her parents - that’s why they both sing it in harmony at the end; she decides it’s a good enough excuse. It perhaps doesn’t play well these days but there was a whole different set of social mores when it was written, where women were not supposed to say “yes”, they were meant to be “good” and go home.

She's making a pretty big effort to leave in the clip from the original movie

Yep and thankfully we no longer live in those days. Things have moved on and in the current context the song comes across badly. Same as songs and acts which were racist, we now avoid them no matter how fondly people thought of them at the time.

It's not a rapey song, and neither is 'blurred lines' for fuck's sake.

People are so incredibly dramatic and histrionic on here sometimes!

Makes you wonder how the fuck we won 2 world wars with the level of snowflakery around these days!

Get over yourself OP.