To be worn down (Trans related)

[WillowWept]

Firstly there’ll be a few of you that say IABU for not sticking this in feminism. I make no apology: people need to know this.

The slide attached is from a CPS endorsed school training programme. It’s in schools now

The training supports any boy to access girls’ private spaces, based only on his own self-declared ‘gender identity’ and enforces the idea that to challenge this is a hate crime.

Girls are being taught to ignore their boundaries - the same ones that all parents work so hard to instil so as not to commit a crime. Putting men’s feelings before their physical safety.

We’re setting up our girls for horrific abuse I’m so tired of fighting this.

if both lads are ok with that then no worries.

No. I think this strawman is often wheeled out to the detriment of these discussions because no-one, absolutely no-one, whatever they are and whatever they identify as is entitled to a relationship or sex with anyone. Intimacy is not a 'right'. Substitute trans for redhead, dark skin, light skin, wonky teeth, blonde hair, tall, short, fat and it is perfectly permissible.

Intimacy is not a right - what TRAs are fighting for here is the 'right' as it were to be included in segregated spaces such as changing rooms; anyone that voices otherwise is branded a bigot. The relationship/partner comparison just does not work.

yanbu

If this bullshit comes to my dd school i will make damn sure to undermine any teaching and fully explain how and why it is rubbish.

YANBU. i don't want to say much about it - but YADNBU.

No. I think this strawman is often wheeled out to the detriment of these discussions because no-one, absolutely no-one, whatever they are and whatever they identify as is entitled to a relationship or sex with anyone. Intimacy is not a 'right'. Substitute trans for redhead, dark skin, light skin, wonky teeth, blonde hair, tall, short, fat and it is perfectly permissible.

It is not wheeled out for effect. It is the basis of the argument. Turning a transwoman down for being a man is now considered bigoted hate speak. Lesbians are being told that they have to accept that women now can have penises. Pretending it is a straw man is like burying your head in the sand. This is live, right now, in campuses and colleges and schools, and when the GRA is redefinied, everywhere. Because the TRA is being run by the MRA.

It is being very carefully dripfed into schools, 14 yr old girls are being offered mastectomies. It really is happening right here, right now.

twitter.com/hendopolis/status/939977760306532352?s=0

If this bullshit comes to my dd school i will make damn sure to undermine any teaching and fully explain how and why it is rubbish

Good news...they will be surveying kids at your school very soon. DailyTelegraph tomorrow, see tweet above.

StarOnTheTopOfTheTree - I think much of his argument is that the proposals I've told him about are so ridiculous that he has just refused to accept that that is the case.

Would your DS believe links to government sites?

Here is the page announcing the proposals.

Here is the Transgender Equality Report, which is where these proposals originate. It's a long document but the gist of the proposals can be found in Conclusions and recommendations.

Paragraph 7 says, Within the current Parliament, the Government must bring forward proposals to update the Gender Recognition Act, in line with the principles of gender self-declaration that have been developed in other jurisdictions. In place of the present medicalised, quasi-judicial application process, an administrative process must be developed, centred on the wishes of the individual applicant, rather than on intensive analysis by doctors and lawyers.

It's also worth paying attention to paragraphs 21-22 on recommended changes to the Equality Act:

21.Significant concerns have been raised with us regarding the provisions of the Equality Act concerned with separate-sex and single-sex services and the genuine occupational requirement as these relate to trans people. These are sensitive areas, where there does need to be some limited ability to exercise discretion, if this is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. However, we are not persuaded that this discretion should apply where a trans person has been recognised as of their acquired gender “for all legal purposes” under the Gender Recognition Act. In many instances this is unlikely, in any case, to meet the proportionate test.

22.We recommend that the Equality Act be amended so that the occupational requirements provision and / or the single-sex / separate services provision shall not apply in relation to discrimination against a person whose acquired gender has been recognised under the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

So introduce self-ID for people to get a GRC AND remove exemptions for single sex services to exclude trans people if they have a GRC. What could go wrong?

Changes to the EA would require a separate bill. Maria Miller already launched a private members bill on the EA last year which ran out of time before the text was published, so we don't know if this recommendation would have been in there. I expect we will see such a bill at some point in the near future.

The UK government consultation on the changes to the GRA has not yet started. I heard somewhere it's been postponed til after Christmas. The Scottish government have already launched their consultation which your DS might like to read.

All of this is being done under a tory government but the proposals have cross-party support.

I'm sorry, but no way this works.

No way at all. There will be those left vulnerable by being able to just identify and use spaces for those of an opposite gender.

I can well imagine there are going to be a lot of people who misuse this legistlation.

I think the only time that a person with male genitalia should be able to identify as female and be able to be in female only places, they should at the very least be undertaking hormonal castration therapy. After all, if they do feel they are female they won't want the ability to get a stiffy would they?

I'm also concerned that this legistlation would mean that a person with female genitalia could go to a prison filled with males if they identify as such, but said person would physically be a woman and vulnerable to sexual assaults.

I am scared of these changes. Petrified actually.

YANBU.

I have taken a frw days break from it all. It was starting to depress me.

I took DD10 for her first bra on Sunday. She was nervous and embaressed in the female changing rooms. I had to reassure her it was ok girls only and nobody could see behind the curtain.

Had that been a unisex changing room I would not have got her in there.

This trans agenda is damaging for females and nobody seems to care.

Pencils I'll have a look at those. Thanks.

And I also object to the prefix 'cis'. I'm not 'cis' anything. I'm a woman. I was born a girl and I grew into a woman. I'm not adding a superfluous prefix to any of that to appease some men.

OP, is there any way to get hold of that slide so I could share it with others? Is it publicly available?

People have been shutting down debate by calling the other side 'bigots' for some time now. What sympathy I have for the issues that are being raised in these threads is a little diluted by the suspicion that the same people who are outraged at the use of 'TERF/transphobe' to shut down debate are the same people who would shut me down as a racist/Xenophobe for talking about immigration control / Brexit.

The phrase 'hoisted by your own petard' comes to mind.

I think the only time that a person with male genitalia should be able to identify as female and be able to be in female only places, they should at the very least be undertaking hormonal castration therapy. After all, if they do feel they are female they won't want the ability to get a stiffy would they?

Currently top shop and primark already allow anyone wanting to use the changing room of their choice the option of using the changing room of their choice.

Which is why so many of us are trying to point out the issues. To be met with 'die TERF bigot' and running away from answering any actual questions on the topic.

Tbh, whilst I'm fearful of the implications for women and the impact on our 'safe spaces' - such as changing rooms, toilets, refuges and when receiving intimate care... and the impact on things such as women's sports teams; women's awards and women's initiatives if they are taken by a man in a dress...

What really fucks me off is the abhorrent language, sentiments and threats being expressed by some of these men; 'transwomen'; TRAs about the very people they allegedly consider themselves to be part of.

I know this isn't anything to do with the debate regarding trans being able to enter female spaces. Personally I believe that until a man has had surgery to become a female (which shows he genuinely feels he is female) she is female after the surgery, before he is male.

But I put this link on my facebook a few days ago, I don't know if this Guidance for schools is an actual government backed thing or if it is just a trans-organisation thing outlining what they think should be implemented in school.

It says this on Page 18 regarding children with special needs

''Please note: by age 2 or 3, a child starts to develop a sense of being a male or female. Some children with a learning disability/additional support needs, however, may not develop gender awareness at the same age and stage as their peers. It is important that children with ASN are actively taught gender identity so that they understand the gender assigned to them at birth.
Conversely, this often requires blatant ‘boy/girl’ activities. However, once a child understands the gender assigned to them at birth, teaching and practice can diversify to include non-stereotypical approaches and allow the child to explore their True Gender identity.'

So what they are saying is that 2-3 year olds with special needs should be engaged in activities based on sexist stereotypes until they understand what boys do (play with cars, trains) and what girls do (play with dolls, dress as princesses).
Once they understand this, they can be encouraged to explore whether they are really a girl or a boy. Boys can't play with dolls and girls can't play with trains, it means they are transgender.

I think if this is what is happening in schools, the whole thing is going to far, its becoming ridiculous.

Sorry forgot to include the link..

www.centralsexualhealth.org/media/8009/guidance-for-schools-trans-gender-variance.pdf

The percentage of children identifying as another gender is so low and in a school environment these are the people who are at risk of being bullied as they are alone and in a minority. Imagine being a child who identifies as another gender and being brave enough to be open about it is a school environment?? Would they really do all that just to have the opportunity to enter the girls toilets? I don't think so.

I'm also gonna be guilty of going off topic but I had a thought. If preschools have to show diversity in roleplay for NT 2/3 year olds (which I'm sure is an OFSTED criterion), yet must rigidly enforce them in children with ASN (as shown above), how does this work when a lot of educational related disabilities aren't diagnosed until long after 2/3?

Flowerfae if you scroll to the end of the PDF you linked, you'll see it is endorsed by Stirling Council, Falkirk Council, Clackmannanshire Council and NHS Forth Valley.

The CPS guidance in the OP can be found here and there's a gender critical analysis of its contents here.

Society only acknowledges two biological sexes and two gender categories: male or female. With each of these categories there are expectations and rules. These rules dictate standards for many things such as clothing, activities and behaviours and are not fixed laws but vary across societies and times.

WTF! Why not just get rid of the expectations and 'rules' then?!! Rather than tell children that because they prefer clothing; enjoy activities; display behaviours often commonly associated with the gender stereotypes usually assigned to the opposite sex, that they are trans or genderqueer or whatever and start messing about with their bodies and laws.

TrinitySquirrel Your post at the beginning of this thread has just made a very troubled and anxious Mum feel like she is not alone in her thoughts. I am that Mum. My teenage daughter has had many struggles for the past few years and now is consumed with thinking she should be a boy because she doesn’t ‘fit in’ with girls. It is heartbreaking because I can she really does want to be a girl (who enjoys sports and male company), but the information she gets from secondary school feels almost like brainwashing. Please don’t anybody jump on me about this post, I really couldn’t take it. I just wanted TrinitySquirrel to know that her words felt like a hug of reassurance, for somebody at the end of their rope. Thank you x

I've read that guidance document.

It's interesting. One thing has struck me. It does go on to talk a lot about providing gender neutral play opportunities and avoiding gendered expectations of boys and girls.

I have to say, I wholeheartedly agree with that. I've so often heard and see sexism occuring in schools because the staff choose boys/girls for certain activities/jobs based on their gender rather than their interest/ability/suitablilty.

But I find it very interesting that when women have called for this for years to ensure equality for girls, it's been dismissed, yet in relation to something that men are also part of (the trans movement) it's being embraced.

Rather than telling these children they are 'gender variant', why not just let them be who they are without attaching a restrictive label to them in the first place.

Sick to death of this trans nonsense. World has managed perfectly well with 2 genders for decades.
For the few who are truly intersex then special rules by all means but this is a long way from the nonsense appearing in the news daily now.

I've seen photos of gender neutral toilets in a school, they were completely secure single toilets not cubicles open at the top and bottom. They were open onto a corridor. I thought they were safer because of the openness, my DD got bullied by girls at school and going to the toilet was scary for her.

I think similar changing rooms would be great, I remember the horror of being forced to strip in front of 30 other girls and the rather butch PE teacher when I was about 13. No bloody dignity in that.

Perhaps this can be turned to something positive giving girls and boys, men and women decent safe facilities.

Rather than telling these children they are 'gender variant', why not just let them be who they are without attaching a restrictive label to them in the first place. Very true.