To be worn down (Trans related)

[WillowWept]

Firstly there’ll be a few of you that say IABU for not sticking this in feminism. I make no apology: people need to know this.

The slide attached is from a CPS endorsed school training programme. It’s in schools now

The training supports any boy to access girls’ private spaces, based only on his own self-declared ‘gender identity’ and enforces the idea that to challenge this is a hate crime.

Girls are being taught to ignore their boundaries - the same ones that all parents work so hard to instil so as not to commit a crime. Putting men’s feelings before their physical safety.

We’re setting up our girls for horrific abuse I’m so tired of fighting this.

But we all have the power to not use businesses that adopt these policies. I won't use changing rooms in shops where anyone in a dress is allowed in, beards and all. I won't use public facilities either, or take my DDs or GDs into anywhere that does. Our only hope of putting a stop to it is to all pull together and boycott en masse. Women are the majority population after all, by a few % and money talks. We can hope. The whole thing is utter bloody madness.

But if the proposed new legislation goes through, it won't be at the discretion of individual businesses - It will be the law that they have to let anyone who claims to identify as a woman in (and in practice, they wouldn't even dare ask the question of the 6ft 2" figure with the beard because it would be discriminatory.)

It's also not just about changing rooms etc. There could be men in your 'single sex' hospital ward. If you prefer a female doctor to carry out intimate examinations, they could be biologically male. If you are disabled or elderly and require intimate personal care by a carer of the same sex, they could be someone of the opposite sex who has had no hormones/surgery etc but 'identifies' as the other sex. Women in prison have no choice but to live alongside rapists with penises who identify as women - and female prison officers are up in arms that they are being forced to carry out intimate body searches of male-bodied rapists who obviously get off on forcing women to touch them. Then there's women's refuges, rape crisis services etc. Often the only 'choice', if there is one, is to put up with it or to no longer be able to access a service.

If this was put forward as a proposal to remove all single sex services (which women have fought for and which are enshrined in law as being justified), everyone would be up in arms - but that is exactly what this is in practice.

In case anyone isn't aware, you already do not need to have had any hormones or any surgery to legally become a woman - but the proposed legislation would also remove the requirement of a doctor confirming that you have gender dysphoria - instead just allowing people to self-declare.

we are just going to ignore the plasticity of the brain then
I really struggle with bad science aspect of this.

Hiding he was thinking more in terms of accessing refuges or jobs that are currently protected, such as providing personal care to a woman with LDs where one might have previously had to provide a certificate.

But yes, that is a very valid point.

I think much of his argument is that the proposals I've told him about are so ridiculous that he has just refused to accept that that is the case.

He is responding much as he would have done to anyone who said that legalising same sex marriage diminised 'traditional' marriage. I have tried to explain the difference, but he says my fears are no different to those of my parents generations were in the 1980s when it came to gay rights. He just will not accept that it's different.

He has no knowledge of, for example, AGP and hasn't looked into the background of some of this. All he sees is that transpeople will receive recognition and equality.

buttfacedmiscreant A study undertaken by Paul Dirks showed that violence against women increased in US states after the introduction of gender inclusive legislation:
womanmeanssomething.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Gender-Legislation-Increases-Harm.pdf

And I'm sure you are aware of the publicity over Target's policy and the number of voyeurism etc incidents since.

The Guardian had an article recently about the latest research which completely contradicts the idea of female and male brains:
amp.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/01/brain-sex-many-ways-to-be-male-and-female?

This is dangerous, and can be exploited by some men to assault and abuse women.

There should be spaces where women go to feel safe. So any nasty man can say they identify as a women, go into the ladies toilet and assault or rape a woman.

So any nasty man can say they identify as a women, go into the ladies toilet and assault or rape a woman.

Or video them, install videos that stream straight to the internet, drag them into cubicles, get their cocks out and shock them, pretty much anything they like, and be allowed to accuse the women who complain of being bigots and of a hate crime.

Nice work if you can get it.

Or use women only spaces, like toilets, and changing rooms, shower rooms, to harass women and make them feel uncomfortable, or to perve at women, no thanks.

But how can you speak out against this when you will be immediately accused of being a transphobe? It's like being entered into some weird dystopian world

bufffaced

Your link actually says the following; Of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn.

So in conclusion they have no idea. If they examine for examp,e the brain of a FTM transperson and that person has been living as a man for some time, believing themselves to be a man then is it surprising that their brain anatomy may be similar to a cis man if men’s and women’s brains do show a difference?

What would be more telling is if the brains were different at birth.

Just a quick note. Posting links to science journalism rather than straight to pubmed doesn't necessarily prove the point you wish to make, since frequently the headline and the actual conclusion of the study are poles apart :)

I think much of his argument is that the proposals I've told him about are so ridiculous that he has just refused to accept that that is the case.

How does he react when rapists are put into female prisons because they have self declared themselves as women? Or how the figures for women's violent crime are going up and up because, you guessed it, they are self declaring that they are women. This is already happening. The GRA changes will just mean that anyone can declare they are a women and get exactly the same rights as any actual woman. Also, notice that trans men, ie women who are self declaring themselves as men, when they commit crimes, these are also being reported as [ta da] women! So the figures for male crimes in general will drop, the figures for female crimes with go up and the MRA gang who are spearheading all this - will shout out what they believed all along, that women are the perpetrators here and men are the victims.

^ or what viva said!

I think much of his argument is that the proposals I've told him about are so ridiculous that he has just refused to accept that that is the case.

I can sort of see where he is coming from. I can remember reading about this stuff (mainly to do with stuff in the US and Canada at the time) and I used to think all these fears were just 'scare stories' and that of course the government will have thought this through properly and there will be checks and safeguards in place.

I've now come to realise that, no, they really haven't thought it through and, no, there are no proposed safeguards. They are just listening to the transactivist lobby - with experts, women's groups and even dissenting trans people being ignored - and transactivists are doing an excellent job of silencing debate through threats and violence.

Biology, not our brains, determine our sex, gender is different. I have no problem with genuine trans women using women only spaces, but I am afraid that it will be abused by some nasty men.

it's the brain that tells you whether you are a boy or a girl
Which flat-earther came up with that?
Dangerous, misogynistic bullshit. I despair.

This is so very troubling.

Given that something quite unusual is going on with a person with trans identity issues/ body dismorphic disorder, I am not surprised that their brains are a bit different. How many people with mental illness have such scans and show differences? I know there are some MH disorders (other than organic disorders like vascular disorders obviously) that do show on scans so it would be interesting to know how more people compare to these so-called norms.

The fact is we still don't have the enough thorough or broad ranging data to make such strong assertions and still know so little about how brains work. Studies typically look at only 20 or 30 brains. If a study had looked at over 10000 sorted for age, class, education and socialisation etc, and the researchers were proven to be free from bias, then I might give it more credit. 30 brains here and there? Nope, I can't take that seriously for something as complicated as identity.

We still don't even know what some parts of the brain do, or how paracetamol works FFS!! Is there supposed to be an area of the brain that lights up when you want to wear dresses and lipstick? it isn't even like many transwomen suddenly become 'earthmother' types and super maternal/ nurturing, something typically associated with women. I absolutely challenge the notion that what they claim to feel is essentially 'female' in nature.

Also, the bathroom issue does matter - there have been plenty of times that I have ducked into a ladies toilet to avoid a creepy bloke in a public place, knowing that he was unlikely to come in after me for fear of being challenged ...and of being noticed and possibly identified. Perpetrators want to get away with their crimes without being noticed or identified so being where they shouldn't be makes them noticeable. Soon with all this madness, the creepy bloke can feel free just come right in to the women's toilets. Women will just lower their eyes and leave. In places like train, bus and tube stations I would definitely want decent quality CCTV outside toilets.

We can make toilets segregated by sex not 'gender' under the Equality Act, but we have to get the authorities to listen to women somehow.

Or use women only spaces, like toilets, and changing rooms, shower rooms, to harass women and make them feel uncomfortable, or to perve at women, no thanks.

No thanks what? You won't be allowed to say anything as you will be accused of being a bigot, of committing a hate crime or be told to die. Some women pointing this out have been Doxxed, which means they have been outed at work, as being bigots. Which the employer is then bullied into dealing with it, else they get outed as being bigots.

It is men that are driving this, not women. There are a certain number of women who haven't quite clocked the repercussions and stand with their 'sisters' outing people as TERFs all over the place.

It is madness.

OP thank you for posting this

is there a website or anything that we can link to when contacting various organisations - I mean where that particular slide can be found?

I have to go now but thanks in advance if you have any links, I will be back online at some point tomorrow.

Or swimming pool changing room to watch the children, as it's mostly women who get children changed for swimming.

And mostly women who take children to the toilets.

And mostly women who take children into changing rooms in shops...

It's been said before that if the true concern is really that transwomen are afraid of the exact same male violence that women are then, perhaps, the solution is to address male violence and do everything possible to keep men out of women only spaces. Not make it dangerous for all of us!

Well, I guess technically they might mean that you could chop up said brain, zoom in reeeally close and have a look at the chromosomes?

Though I imagine it's more of a "chop it in half and see if the inside is pink or blue" kind of thing

But how can you speak out against this when you will be immediately accused of being a transphobe?

You can't. The men have very carefully seen to that. It's almost genius in it's execution...

Unplug - I did recently see a study that found corresponding defects in brains of both transsexual (with dysphoria) individuals and those with anorexia nervosa

How does he react when rapists are put into female prisons because they have self declared themselves as women? Or how the figures for women's violent crime are going up and up because, you guessed it, they are self declaring that they are women.

Sadly, this is the point in the conversation at which he declares that he is not prepared to discuss it anymore and leaves the room...

He doesn't believe that it happens.

It's terf/transphobe propaganda.