To ask how you justify being with a non-maintenance payer?

[ohreallyohreallyoh]

I realise I will be accused of being goady but that is not my intention. I ask the question in all seriousness. If your partner/brother/son/nephew/friend (and female equivalents, of course) and you are aware that no maintenance is paid towards the upbringing of children, what is it for you that makes that OK?

My ex has moved in (again - 4th time!) with his girlfriend recently and she seems perfectly reasonable and my kids really like her. But the fact remains that as a self employed businessman, he pays no child maintenance whatsoever. It has not been an issue - I earn OK and my children want for nothing, but the bitter taste it leaves and the sense of injustice is difficult to shake. I suspect she doesn’t know, and that he has sold her the ‘perfect father’ vs. ‘crazy ex’ story which she has no reason to question (or chooses not to question).

So, under what circumstances is it reasonable?

I agree it's about children missing out. But the thread has turned into a bun fight about women not recognising the signs of a non-payer/ shit parent. My point is women in that position are damned if they do/damned if they don't. Women who are told they are to have nothing to do with the situation yet at the same time should know enough about the situation to know whether the dad is paying maintenance.

How can it not be about blaming women? It's in the thread title. If the thread was about how as a society, we should protect children by strengthening the laws around child support, it would have said so.

Instead, it puts the onus onto the new partners of NPRs to shoulder moral responsibility. Statistically almost all these new partners will be women.

It is for the man to pay. All I said was I have refused a second date with men who don't pay and I always ask about this stuff. Men who don't pay and choose not to see their children are not men I would ever consider going out with.

MorrisZapp Exactly!

No it doesn't Morris and there have been 400+ posts saying that the onus is NOT on the partner, it's on the NRP

I don't understand how posters can be bothering typing when what they post wilfully misunderstands and misconstrues what others have spent hours saying!

If someone asked me if I would knowingly commence a relationship with someone in the sex offenders register or who had a history of domestic abuse that I was aware of or even just plain old rude and dismissive to waiting/retail staff in my company, my answer would be no.

I also wouldn’t feel like I was being made responsible for their behaviour or blamed.

The answer would be no because (and I think this is fairly normal) I actively seek out people to surround myself with who don’t step so far away from my values and morals that I would be uncomfortable with them or distrust them and I like to spend time with people I admire respect or like.

The question the op is asking is how do you justify it, I can’t answer that because I wouldn’t do it.

Well said Needs

Dds Dad doesn’t see her or pay maintenance. He’s a dick.
I work full time, yes I get tax credits but it is extremely difficult finding money for School trips, dinner money, before and after school care. Hard to progress career as I can’t stay late etc and I do have to take time of for dd.
Generally we are great and I’m proud of myself for pushing on. BUT it sticks in my throat when I see that he has a new gf and going out all the time - I don’t have those luxuries - I also can’t see how you’d be ok with someone not seeing or paying for their child. It’s not ok by any stretch.
DD is great I explain the situation in an honest way without slating him as I don’t believe in doing that. She is clever and will come to her own conclusion.
People are quick to harp on and bitch about LPs but more vitriol needs to be directed at absent and non paying parents who are doing sweet FA.

I could not date a man who was not financially and emotionally committed to his children. I'd think there was something missing tbh.

No I wouldn't ask on a first or second date but if I were in a serious relationship I would expect to know.

I really don't get these men (and some women) who seem to be able to just walk away. The idea of seeing my children one day a week or something is 😐 And I'm not sure why men are any different. The men that I know who are divorced all have 50/50 care.

Oh and it's entirely the mans responsibility to pay for his children but I morally could not participate in a relationship funded by his failure to do so. Any more than I could participate in a relationship / life funded by other immoral means.

famous I'm a woman and have been forced into a situation where I see my daughter for 2 nights per month. It breaks my heart but I have no choice for now.

Apologies, I have not RTFT.

Cocklodger DB1 has at least 8 children with 4 different women (possibly more that I am unaware of). The eldest 6 have nothing to do with him. The 2 youngest are 'his world', paraded all over Facebook.

I just wonder if, now that he is older, he can't attract the naive young girls to impregnate, like he used to. He has plenty of money to play 'Disney Dad'; yes, he's not with their mother either. I suspect he's had to call it a day with his antics. Doesn't and never has supported the elder ones once he's moved on.

Toerag DB2 left his first family, and DSIL struggled alone on benefits and later minimum wage jobs to bring up 3 DCs and did an excellent job.

DB2 and his 'new' family (not his biological kids, but his GFs) didn't last long. He's now living alone and reaping what he sowed.

It's despicable, cowardly and shameful behaviour, I don't know how people can't see through it. Anyone with an ounce of self esteem would never shackle themselves to these twunts.

Pulling, do you pay maintenance?

Yes really I do, have done since it was decided that dd was to stay with her Dad, and will continue to do so. I am probably one of the rare nrps that realise maintenance isn't just for stuff for the child but to keep food in their belly and a roof over their head.

In contrast her dad used to try and demand my budget wrt what I spent child support on, and assumed I was minted!

As an aside the reason I can't see my dd more is because it is 760 miles when I do and I genuinely cannot afford the fuel more than once per month.

pullingmyhairout1

That must be so so hard for you and your DD. I hope things change/get easier for you in the future.

Pulling - that must be very hard for you. I hope things improve.

To be clear I was really talking about those who seem to choose to walk away. I understand there are those who are in situations they would not choose and who may also be prevented from having greater contact.

Pulling I am in the same situation as you. I see my DC a weekend per month and school holidays. They live in a different country to me. Unlike you I don't pay 'official' maintenance as it was agreed in our divorce that because my travel costs are so high to maintain contact with DC, I clearly couldn't afford it. Having said that, I pay for lots of things for my DC - clothes, shoes, school trips, mobile phone contracts etc so contribute financially in other ways. I would love my DC to live with me - unfortunately this situation was not my choice. I would never ever let my children go without something they needed if it was within my power to provide it.

Thank you ladies it is extremely hard. She was here the weekend. It was the first weekend she was allowed to my home for the first time and after she left I managed to hold it together until my partner got home from work, and then I sobbed!

However, she told me she wanted to stay. I can't say if she was coerced or not but I told her I would respect her wishes, so that is what I have to do.

Rainbow its an emotional killer isn't it?

Pulling, it’s so awful. I am seeing a counsellor to help me cope with it all. It’s been over two years now thankfully my brilliant children seem to have taken it all in their stride and are managing the situation really well. Sending and hugs to you.

I can understand someone not knowing if their new partner pays maintenance.
However they definitely do know if the ex does or doesn't see them and some new partners do discourage the ex spending time with his DC.

Thank you Rainbow its very raw for me right now.

Sorry op for highjacking the thread

I have no idea whether my husband is a non payer or not.

The year I met my husband I’d arranged to take my stepchildren to see Santa whilst he was working.
His ex then tried to change the arrangements and he explained I’d already booked/paid for them to go somewhere and I was told that “I shouldn’t be fucking dictating what her kids do, because I’d never be anything to do with them” therefore I adopted that mantra and have no idea if he pays maintenance.

His ex then tried to change the arrangements and he explained I’d already booked/paid for them to go somewhere and I was told that “I shouldn’t be fucking dictating what her kids do, because I’d never be anything to do with them” therefore I adopted that mantra and have no idea if he pays maintenance.

So, in essence, you put your own dislike of his ex above the welfare of some children and you're happy to admit it? Nice.