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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel slightly offended?

162 replies

BeautyQueenFromMars · 08/12/2017 11:58

I'm not one to take offence easily, as I tend to take things in the spirit in which they are meant, which isn't usually offensively. However, just had a meeting with my new manager (have recently moved depts within same company), and he informed me that the head of the company described me as "a bright girl". I'm 38 ffs!!

Now, I know it's intended as a compliment, the 'big boss' is a lovely Scottish man I get along well with, and I suspect it's a phrase more in his vocab than "intelligent woman", so I'm not going to get all het up about it. But I am a bit affronted, I have to admit. I'm not a ten year old child!

I am struggling a little with my self-worth at the moment, so I could just be over-reacting. Silently, to myself and Mumsnet! Please tell me if IABU...

OP posts:
Lucyccfc · 09/12/2017 07:17

Where I live we use the words girl and lad to describe people of all ages. I'm delighted when I am described as a girl, as I'm nearly 50.

One of our Board members described me as 'mad as a box of frogs' the other week. Thought it was a great compliment.

Increasinglymiddleaged · 09/12/2017 07:19

Bert you really are being ridiculous as I clearly don't know him. This is just in the 'plain daft' camp, no more or less. Unless you can prove that he definitely wouldn't..... Ah hang on you don't know him either. But it is daft to refer to adults using child descriptors particularly in the workplace and it's reasonable for either sex to find it irritating.

Alexindisguise · 09/12/2017 07:23

I hate being called lady or woman, it makes me feel old. Much prefer to be called girl.

katand2kits · 09/12/2017 07:26

It would bother me. A man in the same position would not be called a "bright boy". Even though the comment was well meant, it is sexist and infantilizing.

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2017 07:35

It's also interesting how much value women put on being young. I can't imagine a man ever saying he would rather be called a boy because being called a man made him feel old...........

Alltheprettyseahorses · 09/12/2017 07:36

Interesting thread. Disliking the tern 'girl' could be both a regional issue and a class one. Where I'm from, you are a perpetual girl or a lad and never a woman or a man, so no one would be upset at that.

I wonder if there's any intersection with the group who feel annoyed at being called pet/love/duck etc, often because they're not used to it?

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2017 07:41

"Disliking the tern 'girl' could be both a regional issue and a class one. Where I'm from, you are a perpetual girl or a lad and never a woman or a man, so no one would be upset at that."

Is your GP a girl or a lad? Your MP?

JonSnowsWife · 09/12/2017 07:44

For me, I dislike being called a girl because it implies I'm childlike. I'm a woman. I also dislike being addressed as 'Lady'. This has happened a couple of times, usually by an irate bloke never a woman. I remember being at a MC event once (wished I'd never gone it was as boring as fuck but I was a volunteer). To which one bloke shouted "Oi! Lady!" at me when wanting to talk to me about something (he knew who I was and he wasn't joking). A good old fashioned "excuse me JSW" would have got my attention just as well.

ChocolateCakeandTeaPlease · 09/12/2017 07:49

I'm Scottish and I do use girl. Probably not in the context of the OP but I might say to one of my friends or sister 'lucky girl!' or something similar if they had a bit of luck. I also used 'boy' in relation to grown men. Equality and all that.

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2017 07:51

Chocolate-would you call a middle aged man in a professional context a "bright boy"?

Deathraystare · 09/12/2017 07:53

To me it depends how it is said. It doesn't bother me if us receptionists are referred to as "The girls" - "Ask the girls in the office" - in some way it just sounds friendlier than ask the women though I suppose some would say a bit over familiar???. We refer to the porters as boys (one is retiring next year!) . The female manager (a 'girl' in her 60's) will ask where "The boys" are.

Some men - whatever they say will sound offensive! If it sounds patronising then yeah it would annoy me. Some people can call me love and it is ok, whereas other - nope.

I actually hate being called Madam!!!! Makes me feel like an old bat!

ZigZagandDustin · 09/12/2017 07:53

Calling an 86 yr old grandmother a girl is not exactly respectful but it is so normal people probably don't notice. People say girl about older women because it's ok to patronise older women and see them as cute and a bit of a darling. A bit useless really. Same with mums. Often much loved by their children, but particularly sons are extremly derogatory about their mums when they grow up. Making them out to be 'the centre of their universe but a bit dim'. So cute, and loveable, someone to pat on the head because they now know about the world. It's hilarious that she still makes them their fav food and does their laundry when they're home. How sweet. Oh and mum thinks XYZ, lol. Such a darling but no clue.

ZigZagandDustin · 09/12/2017 07:54

Yes, the receptionist gets to be a girl and the porter a boy.....because they are inferior!!! Can you not see that?

Alltheprettyseahorses · 09/12/2017 07:56

Is your GP a girl or a lad? Your MP?

That just addresses perceived class difference. When we talk about 'us' we're girls and lads.

You don't want to know what we call our MP Wink.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 09/12/2017 07:56

Wouldn't bother me. I think it may be because he is Scottish and "girl" would come more easily.

I'm from the North East, and women are referred to as "girls"or "lasses" well into their nineties.. Probably he held back from calling you a "canny wee lassie", but just couldn't quite manage "intelligent woman".

It's a compliment. It wasn't meant patronisingly. Take it in the spirit it was given.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 09/12/2017 08:01

Is your GP a girl or a lad? Your MP?

Actually Bertrand- yes they are.

Of our GP people will say I love getting an appointment with Dr X - she's such a lovely girl." (She's well into her 60's btw). And similarly our current MP is also a "really down-to-earth lass".

The previous one was "a great lad - really canny".

So now you know.

(Oh - and the Bishop of our main cathedral in the area was frequently addressed as "pet".)

ZigZagandDustin · 09/12/2017 08:01

Sigh. It wasn't meant patronisingly but as with a lot of language it simply was. It's called casual sexism, casual racism, casual classism. I hope even one or two people on this thread just think a little bit more about the base feeling that drove those two men to use those particular words to describe a person in a professional setting.

ChocolateCakeandTeaPlease · 09/12/2017 08:07

Well I did say not in the context of the OP. So not in a formal meeting or an appraisal or something.

But if I went to speak to my colleague (ten years older and more experienced) and he wasn't at his desk I might say 'where's the boy?' It's a bit informal and jovial so I wouldn't ask it of the Chief Exec who I don't really know, but yes I would use 'boy' for a grown man in certain circumstances. Also similarly to the example in my PP if a man told me they were going on a fabulous holiday, I might say 'oh you lucky boy'.

Someone I know was recently called a girl in a large formal meeting with external suppliers and she was, rightly, put out by it. For me it's contextual rather than a blanket irritant.

ItsYuleyme · 09/12/2017 08:11

I wouldn't be offended, I'm sure that it was meant as a compliment and ev

FairfaxAikman · 09/12/2017 08:11

Deathraystare I hate Madam too, I don't run a bloody brothel!

FinallyHere · 09/12/2017 08:24

Wot ZigZag said

I'd agree with brushing over it at e time, then I would look up the company's HR policies on equality and diversity, and focus my attention on getting one written, or updated (!). You would be looking to change the company's culture, which you can't do as a one woman job, in isolation from that culture. All the best, it possible to make an impact if you get some senior peopke on board, and, I have learned, you do not make it about individuals.

SandyBeachandtheDeckchairs · 09/12/2017 08:43

All of this 'sighing' and talk of handwringing and being professionally offended is actually quite insulting to people who want to talk about stuff like this on here. You may all be so completely well balanced and happy about your place in the world that you brush stuff like this off, but it actually bothers quite a lot of us, and impacts on our working lives.

JonSnowsWife · 09/12/2017 09:00

That just addresses perceived class difference. When we talk about 'us' we're girls and lads

I think BertrandRussell is making a valid point that most people wouldn't call their GPs/MPs etc girls/lads as it doesn't give the same level of respect.

There used to be a Parent in the DCs old school who used to make a point of addressing all their DCs teachers by their first names. So Mrs Smith would be "Tina! Can I have a word!" A Mr Brown would be "Roger! If I could just have a moment". Always done in front of everyone and to me, it just looks like a a show of disrespect. I have always called all of DCs teachers by their names. Mrs/Mr XYZ especially in front of the DCs. I had an appointment with the GP last week and watched a patient call the top doc by his first name. Again it just feels disrespectful to do so. I know the GPs first name too, we've been at the practice for many years but he's still Doctor A to us.

But somehow it's okay to call us girls as if we're not in highly respected roles like some. With me as I said it's that it implies a childlike quality of a grown woman, I have a wealth of experience under my belt and being described as such can come across as patronising.

TenancyTroublesAgain · 09/12/2017 09:03

"Nobody would ever suggest (beyond School) that a guy was a "bright boy"

Yes they would and do!

Annorlunda5 · 09/12/2017 09:07

I call myself a girl because I don't "feel like" a woman yet iyswim, so I probably wouldn't take offense. If I'm out with my girlfriend's then it's "out with the girls" because "out with the women/ladies" makes me feel so old.

However, it does infantilise women....

I think I only do it with people who look young or who I've known when they weren't adults.