To say that the UK is not a Rape Culture?

[PatriarchyPersonified]

So I have had an argument with a lady I work with today that has ended with her calling me the "Patriarchy Personified", hence the name.

She claimed that the UK was a Rape Culture. I completely disagree and it feels like this is more creeping 'third wave' bullshit.

If you look at the definition of Rape Culture which is:

a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

Then it's clear that she is wrong. I don't disagree that there are elements of UK society that I would argue probably are characterised in this way, but you can not describe the whole UK in those terms.

She was extremely unhappy to be challenged, I work with her on a weekly basis and I've got a feeling I'm not going to have heard the last of this!

Pumper

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/overviewofviolentcrimeandsexualoffences

Men are over twice as likely to be violently assaulted (non sexual) than women. (2.4% chance to 1.3% respectively)

I wonder what statistic of men carry out assaults? If it's an inevitability that a man will be the victim of a violent assault, it must also be true that he will be the perpetrator. As it's almost all male upon male violence.

Bertrand

I'd challenge you on that to be honest. Victim blaming is not an exclusive characteristic of sex crimes against women. Men are routinely asked to share culpability regardless of circumstances. A 'fight' in a town centre on a Friday night is always characterised as a 50/50, regardless of individual circumstance. I've personally been punched for no reason whatsoever (mistaken identity as it turned out) and then been arrested by the police as a default responses.

This is why I reject the concept of victim blaming as a characteristic of a rape culture. Victim blaming happens in most crimes.

Men are twice as likely to be violently assaulted than women.

Women account for 93% of sexual assault victims.

Guess who’s overwhelmingly (as near to 100% as makes any difference) carrying out these assaults? I’ll give you a clue. It’s not women.

Do go away.

And again, I'm not comparing violent crime to rape and sexual assault.

I'm using it as an example of something that happens far more often, yet we don't define our entire society by it.

I already know that’s true. I do not refute these statistics.

But you didn’t answer this bit: who is carrying out these attacks?

Or this question from earlier: how many women have to be raped for you to agree the UK is a rape culture?

Or Assasinated question: why this predominantly female website?

It’s interesting how you pick and choose which questions you answer.

"This is why I reject the concept of victim blaming as a characteristic of a rape culture. Victim blaming happens in most crimes."
Fair enough. You are absolutely right. You know more about this than anyone-particularly any woman. Is that what you want to hear? Fill your boots. Out of interest, what are your views on family courts, male suicide,dangerous jobs and domestic violence?

The point I was making was that just being a woman is a risk factor in our society. Does that not suggest a 'cultural' issue?

This is why I reject the concept of victim blaming as a characteristic of a rape culture. Victim blaming happens in most crimes.

There is no crime in which the victim is blamed as much as in sex crimes, male or female. There is no other crime in which the standard defence is consent.

People are generally advised to take care of their personal safety. Men are warned of the dangers of getting drunk and lairy, and also carrying weapons.

But if someone is mugged when they're drunk, they're not blamed and questioned and disbelieved the way rape victims are.

I would also argue that violent assaults on men do not happen at anywhere near the same rate as sexual assaults on women. That is a complete fallacy.

I agree corpse.

Many men really have no idea how common sexual harrassment and assault is and how little it's reported.

You can't get a true picture from police stats as the vast majority is not reported.

There is no other crime in which the standard defence is consent.

That is a really helpful way of putting it, riding.

If I went to the police and reported my car stolen, chances are I wouldn't be asked if I had consented to having my car taken.

The fact that I sometimes let my boyfriend borrow my car wouldn't be used in court as evidence that I gave permission for some random bloke to take my car.

The fact that I let agreed to allowed my friend to borrow my car two days later wouldn't be considered sufficient evidence to order a retrial of the thief.

Because we don't live in a country where car theft is normalised and excused.

There is no other crime in which the standard defence is consent.

This is so true. It's only since 1993 that rape within marriage has been accepted as even existing as a possibility, as women's bodies previously apparently belonged to their husbands.

Oh and "Isabella likes it when I smash her car window" wouldn't be considered a reasonable explanation for the physical evidence of car theft.

Your comment about creeping 3rd wave bullshit is about equal to her name for you. Both

I'm using it as an example of something that happens far more often, yet we don't define our entire society by it.

Happens far more often than what? Do you mean that men are violently assaulted more than women are sexually assaulted?

@ Bertrand
"This is why I reject the concept of victim blaming as a characteristic of a rape culture. Victim blaming happens in most crimes."
Why don't we just say, people rape, instead of men rape?
I mean just because men are responsible for 98% of all rapes,
why just focus on men?
How the culture has always been is,
the male is the predator and the female is his favourite prey!
"Get off the streets woman, you are in men's territory now, and if you
go there alone, you know you are fair game.?"
It's a SPORT2MEN.. and in that, men want a victory.

Pumper

Same reference as before.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/overviewofviolentcrimeandsexualoffences

@BertrandRussell men don't may not get told they brought violence on themselves by wearing short skirts, but they DO get told that being drunk and belligerent does.

While I don't think women should be 'blamed' for dressing inappropriately, I do think that dressing in a way that is deliberately intended to get lots of male attention and then getting blind drunk is increasing your risk somewhat.

Does that link answer the question ‘why this website’ or ‘how many women’?

While I don't think women should be 'blamed' for dressing inappropriately, I do think that dressing in a way that is deliberately intended to get lots of male attention and then getting blind drunk is increasing your risk somewhat.

Deliberately intended to get lots of male attention? What?! Who decides that? Is it possible that they’re just...dressing to look nice or feel good? Men can choose whether or not to give them any attention, or are they also in control of the men’s eyes?

Pumper

This website because it's the best one to get informed responses.

The definition of Rape Culture is what I would use.

The OP still showing that he doesn't understand what rape culture is.

Rape culture is a pervasive, insidious continuum which grooms girls and women into thinking that sexualised violence is inevitable and something they just have to put up with because they are the sex class.

Rape culture is complex, sophisticated and often subtle.

The OP is showing extremely clearly his own socialization as influenced by rape culture here on this thread.

"While I don't think women should be 'blamed' for dressing inappropriately"

Why are you blaming them, then?

I'm impressed by your colleagues constraint in name calling. I bet you are one of those people who just argue for the sake of arguing.

YABU