To say that the UK is not a Rape Culture?

[PatriarchyPersonified]

So I have had an argument with a lady I work with today that has ended with her calling me the "Patriarchy Personified", hence the name.

She claimed that the UK was a Rape Culture. I completely disagree and it feels like this is more creeping 'third wave' bullshit.

If you look at the definition of Rape Culture which is:

a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

Then it's clear that she is wrong. I don't disagree that there are elements of UK society that I would argue probably are characterised in this way, but you can not describe the whole UK in those terms.

She was extremely unhappy to be challenged, I work with her on a weekly basis and I've got a feeling I'm not going to have heard the last of this!

What's the point of all this PP?

Do you think if you repeat the UK is not a rape culture enough times you can make it true?

You're so ignorant of all aspects of sex offences, not to mention appropriate capitalisations and statistics - what do you hope to prove other than your own lack of intelligence and lack of information?

"Rape Culture is one where rape and sexual assault are normalised and trivialised"
Great, well done. You do understand this bit. (No need for capitals, though

"Sex crimes in our society are not treated 'normally'. Perpetrators are vilified. Even the accusation is often enough to ruin someone's life/career etc. That is not a characteristic of normalised behavior"

Ah. This is the bit you need to think about a bit more.

Perpetrators are vilified. Even the accusation is often enough to ruin someone's life/career etc.

Really? What's Ched Evans doing being paid thousands a week kicking a ball about of a weekend then?

Why do you refute the statistics? What are your reasons for not believing them?

Do you honestly not think that ‘slut shaming’ leads to a culture of sexual harrassment? Really?

I will ask the same question again, if 20% of women experiencing sexual violence is not representing of what happens in our society what is?

If we look at the experiences of the young women who were raped in Rotherham and other area their experiences were reported to the police time and time again by themselves and professionals and ignored. The situation in Rotherham was not unique situation. That is rape culture in action.

Assassinated

I'm not disputing the statistics being presented. I've used them in my previous posts.

What are your motives here?

If you're not refuting the statistics then why say that you are? Or are you refuting that they say anything about rape culture?

Assassinated

They were presented as proof that the UK is a Rape Culture. I refuted that specific point.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3104694-ever-had-a-close-call?pg=1&order= Read this thread for some idea, OP.

From an early age we are conditioned to be obedient and please.

We're told not to make a fuss. The conditioning is such, that we can't bring ourselves to call the authorities for help, tell our parents or even scream out when attacked.

The casual way some men and boys treat rape and sexual assault as 'appreciation', 'flattering' and 'having a laugh' is horrifying.

With the corrosive nature of porn affecting attitudes and adding to the social conditioning of girls who start to believe that they should be doing what's depicted, this rape culture is getting worse.

Verbal abuse, when not curbed becomes physical.

Loudly discussing porn, sexual activity and making comments about the girls around them, boys become abusers without laying a finger on their victims.

It becomes a gradual 'thing'. We become more fearful, the constant threat of rape, violence and murder becomes internalised and we live with rape alarms, walk with keys held as weapons on our way to our front doors, always have our phones charged and handy and telling people where we are late at night.

What are your motives here, discussing this on a predominantly female forum?

You disputed/disagreed, simply by stating you didn't agree. You haven't refuted that those stats don't show a rape culture. You just don't think they do.

PatriarchyPersonified is a NAMALT-ing MRA, isn't he?

What do you think makes a rape culture?

oh it's just so tediously familiar. the tone. the absolute confidence that your point of view is correct and that everyone is just getting all emotional while you remain calm thanks to the penis of objectivity.

it's so fucking dull.

you are part of the problem, you are rape culture. sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.

Whilst it might seem extreme to brand the U.K. as having a rape culture as this might imply that rape is routine, widespread and accepted across society, and that we’re not as bad as many other places and are better than we were, the fact is that many women continue to be sexually assaulted and raped, and that attitudes that excuse some of this behaviour pervade amongst too many people, means it remains a massive problem, and saying the U.K. has a rape culture isn’t unreasonable.

That said, it’s a sad fact that the entire world has had a rape culture for the entirety of its history!...

According to the ONS statistics listed here on the Victim Support website, 1 in 5 women have suffered some form of sexual assault including rape since the age of 16 and women are 5 times more likely than men to be assaulted.

www.victimsupport.org.uk/crime-info/types-crime/rape-and-sexual-assault

You're not this guy, are you?

The very fact he tought this was OK, shows his level of entitlement.

www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/15703248.Sex_pest_who_handed_strange_notes_to_women_runs_from_court_after_sentence/

*The average prison sentence in the UK is between 1-4 years. Let's take the average and call it 2.5. If I have a one in four chance of being raped in prison then statistically I have to stay in prison for 10 years and I will definitely be raped. That's an appalling thought.

Now the 1 in 5 women being the victim of sexual assault OR rape in their lives figure quotes up to the age of 59. Therefore if we apply the same logic then statistically a woman would have to be alive for 295 years in order to be definitely raped OR be the victim of some form of sexual assault*

Except... not all men will spend 10 years (if any) time in prison. And, in most cases, you can take steps to avoid going to prison. All women will live their lives as women.

A lot of people inhabit distinct little bubbles of society, and are oblivious to the broader world outside them.

I live in middle-class, middle-aged West London and the men I socialise with/work with are perfectly civilised and lovely. I've had a few rude awakenings when I step outside, like a group of men complimenting my earrings when I was walking home from the tube late one night and then calling me an ugly cunt when I didn't respond.

Pretty scary stuff.

Getting

You're absolutely correct. I'm not comparing men's experiences to women's when it comes to rape. Of course woman are at a far higher risk.

The point I was making is that in an earlier post, I responded to the claim that one in four men are raped in prison by saying that I felt this meant that prison was a Rape Culture.

This was then thrown back at me with a direct comparison to the stat that one in five women will experience sexual assault or rape in their lives.

I therefore compared the two stats using like terms (time) to show that they weren't equivalent.

There is certainly no suggestion that men have it harder or as hard as women when it comes to sexual assault and rape. (Unless they are in prison of course)

What are your motives here, discussing this, on a predominantly female forum?

(Why do you keep on capitalising?)

To make a comparison that I hope sheds light on my point.

Men are much more likely to be the victims of violent (non-sexual) assault than women. Predominantly young men.

I'd go so far as to say that it's an inevitability that a man will be violently assaulted at least once in his life. That's shocking when you think about it.

I wouldn't describe the UK as being a Thuggish/Violent Culture though.

Assassinated.

Where is the best place to discuss this where I can get exposed to ideas that challenge my own?

Why does my motive matter? It seems to have generated an interesting discussion.

Men are much more likely to be the victims of violent (non-sexual) assault than women. Predominantly young men.

Do you have a link to these statistics please? Also, who is carrying out these attacks?

"I live in middle-class, middle-aged West London and the men I socialise with/work with are perfectly civilised and lovely"

Sadly, many women think this til events prove them wrong......

It's not an interesting discussion, as has been pointed out several times.

I was asking about posting here, specifically, when there are plenty of other discussion forums where the posters are more mixed or predominantly male. Why did you want to discuss this with predominantly female posters?

Men are more likely to be the victims of non sexual violence. The perpetrators are overwhelmingly also men. Generally speaking they are not told that they brought to on themselves, that they shouldn't have been wearing what they were wearing or shouldn't have been out so late, been on their own or been drinking.