To say that the UK is not a Rape Culture?

[PatriarchyPersonified]

So I have had an argument with a lady I work with today that has ended with her calling me the "Patriarchy Personified", hence the name.

She claimed that the UK was a Rape Culture. I completely disagree and it feels like this is more creeping 'third wave' bullshit.

If you look at the definition of Rape Culture which is:

a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

Then it's clear that she is wrong. I don't disagree that there are elements of UK society that I would argue probably are characterised in this way, but you can not describe the whole UK in those terms.

She was extremely unhappy to be challenged, I work with her on a weekly basis and I've got a feeling I'm not going to have heard the last of this!

Back in but I'm off to bed I'm afraid.

A Sealion?! I had to google that one. Interestingly it shows up most on the net as a label to close down a debate rather than how you're using it to portray me.

Whether you agree with me or not, I'd challenge you to find any post where I've tried to be offensive or attacked anyone personally.

I have however:

Repeatedly had my position misrepresented (its in the thread title!)

Had sexist and racist motives given to me

Been accused of being a racist

Been accused of being sexist

Had the concept of rape 'womansplained' to me despite me never questioning it. Because a man can't understand rape obviously. (While at the same time being accused of mansplaining)

Accused of being an idiot because I took a definition of a word from the dictionary (still don't get that one)

And last but by no means least been accused of being a rape fetishist

Please feel free to disagree with my point, but if you reversed some of the context on this forum some of these comments wouldn't be out of place in some of the more 'extreme' areas of the net.

I'm sure everyone who has commented on here thinks of themselves as a nice person. They would do well to re-read some of their comments.

womansplained

LMFAO

OP, how do you define rape culture?

Op....you forgot getting called a dick

You are always so very helpful anyfucker

I really admire that about you

Yeah op, dont forget the dick comment...really not nice

Are you for real?
You don't understand what it is like to be a woman, and that is fine, because you are not one. But if a woman (or dozens online) tells you her experience, you don't antagonise her. You try and become an ally by educating yourself and others around you about the problems we face. It really isn't difficult.
And no, a white man doesn't get to decide what is or isn't racism. Minorities do because they live it. And by communicating with white people, by having a dialogue, we can educate ourselves and make changes.

I admire you standing up for the rape apologist, rufus

Very cool of you

Not everyone on MN is terribly polite, but it’s not a tea party.

I’m going to point you back to an earlier post of mine: consider why your comments have made people angry. The majority of the women you discuss this with either here, or at work or in the pub will have been sexually assaulted or raped. The majority.

So have a little empathy - if you had been raped do you think you would be able discuss it in an academic fashion with someone who you felt was minimising it?

And last but by no means least been accused of being a rape fetishist

This comment isn’t personal to you. It’s happened before on MN several times, men coming on to MN to lure women into sharing their stories for their gratification.

Clearly you don’t like the accusation but that’s the culture MNers have to put up with, you are getting the inevitable backlash.

I’m sure you can see a parallel there...

I'm a cunt when it's needed - hth

Magnificent sea lioning by OP.

Who forgot: You can't even talk to women any more.
Whatever happened to romance?
How come women will put up with Bloke Over There touching their arm but if I do it I get hit with a handbag or called a creep?

Good morning.

To be clear let's confirm which definition of Rape Culture we are using. Most definitions on the internet (there are several) restrict themselves to only Rape, however I think that's too restrictive so I'll use the one I quoted in my first post and include Rape and Sexual Assault.

I had a think on your major points last night and it seems like the main point of attack to show that the UK is a Rape Culture is from the statistics that have been quoted. The issue here is that I don't believe they show what some people seem to think they show.

I stated earlier that the the figure of 1 in 4 men will be raped in prison is indicative of a Rape Culture and this was presented as a 'haha checkmate' moment because of my comment that the figure of 1 in 5 women experiencing rape OR sexual assault at some point in their lives is not indicative of A Rape Culture. This is a false equivalence.

The average prison sentence in the UK is between 1-4 years. Let's take the average and call it 2.5. If I have a one in four chance of being raped in prison then statistically I have to stay in prison for 10 years and I will definitely be raped. That's an appalling thought.

Now the 1 in 5 women being the victim of sexual assault OR rape in their lives figure quotes up to the age of 59. Therefore if we apply the same logic then statistically a woman would have to be alive for 295 years in order to be definitely raped OR be the victim of some form of sexual assault. That's still not acceptable but I wouldn't describe it as 'normal' either, which is a key part of the definition of a Rape Culture. (If we restrict the figure to just rapes, it would obviously be even more skewed but let's keep sexual assaults in there.)

StreetLife70s

Without wanting to derail the thread, I looked into your 'prejudice + power definition of racism. It feels like your being a bit disingenuous with it. That's not a definition that was ever intended to be applied on an individual basis, but to refer to collective racism carried out by groups. It's kind of obvious why that would be. For individual acts carried out on a personal level, I don't see how the dictionary definition is insufficient.

'
"Womansplaining" 😂😂😂

Please will you stop using capitals for A Rape Culture?

Minimising and making fun of rape and sexual assault.
Victim blaming in all it's forms- what she wore, how much she drank, where she was, sexual history.
Children and teens being referred to as predatory.
Juries that would rather let a rapist go free than "ruining" a man's life.
The defence of "i slipped and fell onto her" actually being successful in a trial.
Porn.
Cat calling.
Systemic abuse and cover ups.
I could go on...

This is rape culture and yes it definitely is in the UK.

That has to be one of the worst misunderstandings of how risk-related statistical analysis works that I've seen in a long time.
I hope your day job doesn't involve maths.
Wow.

Op doesn't understand even the 101 of statistics. Wow. I am cringing for him, that's the most embarassingly rubbish "argument" I have ever seen.

U wot M8?

That’s really not how statistics work, fam.

(I’m assuming you’re a 15yo boy doing badly at GCSE maths here btw)

Hahahaha on the statistics. God almighty.

I was wrong. 6th form debating society would do better than this. This is still just a wee game to the OP though, he doesn’t care

"Boys will be boys"
"He's horrible to you because he likes you"
"Give Aunty/uncle/x person a goodbye kiss/hug" (yes even if you don't want to)
"What did you do to make your friend/sibling hit you?"

In our rape culture society we start by conditioning our children into it very young.

YABU OP.

I can decide which is worse - that your analysis of statistics is totally wrong, or that you’re so arrogant you put it in bold.

Why are you so keen to be right on this when you’ve been proved wrong so many times? How does it affect you?

I can’t believe OP came back. What an arse. Won’t leave until everyone agrees with him.

Hey, OP, are you my dad???

Is there a factual problem with my numbers? I'm happy to be corrected.

Now obviously I understand that statistics and probability aren't literal so let's not go down this rabbit hole of 'haha you don't understand how stats work!'

I fully understand that it's not a literal certainty that if I go to prison for 10 years I will be guaranteed to be raped.

These kind of comparisons are useful however to show how if you take two superficially similar statistics, then express them on the basis of like terms (in this case time) they actually turn out to be very, very different.

So my point remains. The chance of a woman being raped or sexually assaulted in this country is very very low, even by the statistics that I have been handed on this thread. That's not minimising rape, that's simply stating a fact. On that basis it's not fair to characterise the entire culture of a country on those terms. That's literally my entire point.

OP you have shown clearly here that you don't understand what rape culture means.

The term was coined by second wave feminists in the 70s. It describes the lived experience of girls and women. It is a term that provides women with the language to politicize the personal.

It is a sophisticated sociopolitical concept that you have failed to grasp because you are fixated on its use of the word rape and your understanding of sexualized violence and abuse is poor.

Cat calling is rape culture. Porn is rape culture. CSA is rape culture. Flashing is rape culture. Prostitution is rape culture. MTV is rape culture. School girls being eyed up as they walk down the street is rape culture. The UKs legal definition of rape reflects rape culture's influence for crying out loud.

Do you even know what the legal definition of rape is OP??

You do not understand the term rape culture and what it so aptly describes and you look like an arrogant fool for claiming anything about it whatsoever.

A man who isn't affected by rape culture insists to women who are that they are wrong.

Can you really not see the problem? Do you really think you are qualified to make that judgement?

Tbh, I feel sorry for your colleague having to deal with you in future. Let's hope she doesn't have direct experience or she'll be getting very anxious right now.