To say that the UK is not a Rape Culture?

[PatriarchyPersonified]

So I have had an argument with a lady I work with today that has ended with her calling me the "Patriarchy Personified", hence the name.

She claimed that the UK was a Rape Culture. I completely disagree and it feels like this is more creeping 'third wave' bullshit.

If you look at the definition of Rape Culture which is:

a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

Then it's clear that she is wrong. I don't disagree that there are elements of UK society that I would argue probably are characterised in this way, but you can not describe the whole UK in those terms.

She was extremely unhappy to be challenged, I work with her on a weekly basis and I've got a feeling I'm not going to have heard the last of this!

I don't know where to start with this one!

Do you think the OP gave particular thought to how his outfit would be perceived by strange women when getting ready for his night out?

Do you think he’s considered how much he should drink?

Do you think he’s standing at a busy bar getting his backside pinched or getting cat calls or offensive comments?

Do you think he’s considered whether it’s safe to walk home in the dark or walk to his car alone, or get a taxi alone?

His “community” is probably fine...

What a patronising git, giving us food for thought!! I pity his colleague having to work with him Day in day out.

If you're going to categorise the UK as a Rape Culture then you have to categorise the entire world as a Rape Culture. In which case the expression no longer has any meaning.

I just noticed this pearl of ignorance from the OP. Man declares the concept of rape culture as meaningless due to its being a global women's rights issue.

I don't think the me too campaign helps. When you get so many people claiming assault and when you lump all 'assaults' in with rape it kind of normalises it. I find myself now thinking oh well on even violent rapes where as a few years ago I would have been horrified.

If you're going to categorise the UK as a Rape Culture then you have to categorise the entire world as a Rape Culture. In which case the expression no longer has any meaning.

Do you also think that 'racist culture' has no meaning, on the grounds that it is/was pretty much worldwide, OP? I think you'll find it has plenty of meaning for those on the receiving end of it.

If what you're trying to argue is that by using the word 'culture' you are inherently talking about a country's specific characteristics as contrasted with those of other countries, then I see what you're trying to say, sort of. But it's not really a very helpful way of looking at the issue .

I work with survivors of sexual violence. I also see rape jokes being excused as just ‘banter’ by many young men in society. Rape culture absolutely DOES exist in the UK.

I don't think the me too campaign helps. When you get so many people claiming assault and when you lump all 'assaults' in with rape it kind of normalises it. I find myself now thinking oh well on even violent rapes where as a few years ago I would have been horrified

Disagree with this. The Me Too campaign has highlighted just how widespread sexual assault (to varying degrees) really is. And that actually, there is no such thing as 'only a grope'. Sexual assault is sexual assault and all cases should be taken seriously.

Would it surprise you to know that the first two people I told that I had been raped, had also been raped? Statistically speaking, what are the odds of that if ours is not a rape culture?

Defining rape culture to mean 'worse than it is in the UK' is not really a good defense of your position.

@starzig all rapes are violent.

Tbh,given your post,the problem is you,not the metoo campaign.

I don't think the me too campaign helps. When you get so many people claiming assault and when you lump all 'assaults' in with rape it kind of normalises it. I find myself now thinking oh well on even violent rapes where as a few years ago I would have been horrified.

So.....the uk is a rape culture then? Since so many people have been assaulted and it’s ‘normalised’?

In my opinion yes, it has been normalised so yes we do have a rape culture. And touching a boob is not the same as a violent rape and it is a tragedy that it is bring treated as such.

Who is treating it the same? Don't you think that women should be able to go about their business without being groped? Rape is obviously a much more serious crime, but we don't ignore ABH because murder is much worse.

I think it is due to the number of news reports on groping etc... It seems to be headlining as much as the more violent assaults

I’ve been raped and assaulted.

For me, the assault was much much worse and still has lasting repercussions. The rapes (which happened in my late teens) are sort of boxed away with lots of other horrible things that happened. But the assault by a long standing friend, while I was asleep, is the one that stays with me.

It’s really not a spectrum.

I’n not sure that’s the point of the metoo campaign though star.

Surely the point is to demonstrate that assaults of a sexual nature are far more pervasive than most people realise.

Metoo isn’t comparing groping with rape. It’s highlighting the breadth of unacceptable sexual behaviour in our society.

The fact that “minor” sexual assault is seen as in any way acceptable is the thin end of a wedge of behaviour that can lead to rape.

Oh lovely, mansplaining to women what is and isn't rape culture.

The UK is absolutely a rape culture.

Who is treating it the same? Don't you think that women should be able to go about their business without being groped? Rape is obviously a much more serious crime, but we don't ignore ABH because murder is much worse.

This absolutely. It's horrible the way groping is being normalised as if women shouldn't have the right to not have men pawing them. And I'm speaking as someone who suffered serious SA as a child.

So what is your definition of a rape culture?

So many pp's have put forward a more eloquent response than I could write.

OP, your colleague was correct in calling you 'patriarchy personified' - you are trying to mansplain an issue that effects predominantly women and even in the face of statistical evidence you are failing to grasp other points as you are not wanting a debate, just to school the little women in your perceived correct thoughts.

'Given us all food for thought' - yes, indeed .

Oh YABVfuckingU by the way.

You can't address groping without addressing rape or vice versa because both come from the same place of sexual entitlement and the normalisation of sexual violence towards women.

The individuals commiting these offences often escalate, starting small to see what they can get away with and then escalating.

This is a joke right? Or are you bored?

Very meta, OP.

Posting about how rape culture isn't a thing, which handily demonstrating that thinking rape culture isn't a thing, is actually rape culture.

Neatly done.

Love that post @beachcomber

Oh I think this is happening: