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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why women

184 replies

TenForward82 · 06/12/2017 09:43

... have to remember their work tasks, daily activities, where the kids have to be and when, what groceries need buying and what shops to get them from ...

... But a man can't even remember his fucking wallet, meaning a sick mum who has been up early has to drag herself and her toddler out to the car to drop it off for him?

/Rant

OP posts:
SilverySurfer · 06/12/2017 16:28

You may not lilke it but having put up with this for however long, you have become his enabler.

Not every man is like this - some are fully functioning adult human beings. Yours is obviously not so apart from having a rant on here, what are you going to do about it?

Itsnotmesothere
Have I got this terribly wrong? I do know what people mean when they say don't enable the behaviour, I try not to enable crappy behaviour, myself. I feel uncomfortable with the term "enabling" though, isn't it just shifting the blame back on to the woman for "accepting" a man's shitty behaviour?

No, I don't think it's shifting the blame onto the woman at all. The man is 100% at fault but is unlikely to change whilst his wife/partner enables him to behave as he does. Stop enabling - have a discussion about your expectations - explain you will not be acting as backup so he knows that he is 100% responsible and for any consequences resulting from failure.

lakeg · 06/12/2017 16:35

if we have to blame a woman lets blame the mother in law!

SilverySurfer · 06/12/2017 17:38

A good place to start lakeg and I do not blame the women at all.

They have found themselves in unequal, unacceptable situations not of their making. I know disenabling requires some effort on their part and I never said it was easy but I can't believe any of them promised to love, honour and be the domestic drudge when they walked down the aisle.

It may be too late for some but if they had set our their expectations at the start of a relationship. preferably before children, perhaps there would be fewer useless men in the world - kill or cure.

AutumnMadness · 06/12/2017 19:12

SilverySurfer, I agree that talking about expectation is useful. However, my experience shows that talk is cheap. Unless there are clear and consistent enforcement mechanisms, there is no guarantee at all that talk will translate into action. It's like the Kyoto Protocol: no enforcement mechanisms - no action. Women have enforcement mechanisms - social expectations and the sense of responsibility for domesticity and children that is drummed into us since childhood. Men as of yet have nothing this powerful and pervasive hanging over them.

It is also quite hard for people to know what family life would actually be like before they have children. Unless you conduct an experiment where you set an alarm to wake you up several times a night for months and puke all over your bed, you will not know what long-term sleep deprivation feels like or how you will handle it. And it is in these sorts of difficult stressful situations that people tend to fall back on their ingrained cultural assumptions because stress does not leave much space in our brains for complex thinking. These unconscious assumptions tell women to pull their socks up and get on with cleaning that toilet. Many men, on the other hand, develop selective blindness and strategic incompetence when faced with the same toilet.

Life is also dynamic. And very often shit just starts drifting over time, creeping up slowly. And unless you are somebody who is very alert, reflexive and have mental resources to continuously critically evaluate your situation, shit can totally get on top of you before you notice it. A couple have a baby, the woman takes a year off for maternity leave, during which time she develops more skills in handling the child than the man who is at work. She then returns to work and it just happens that she keeps doing the bulk of childcare. It happens all the time.

This is why many women find feminism after they have children. It is the experience that shows them how things really are.

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2017 19:25

I so often want to reply to
women posting in Relationships "You could avoid this issue by only making adult relationships with adults".
And there is an enabling issue. Women are always telling other women that they need to teach/show/encourage/praise men to do things which any adult capable of holding down a job and driving a car could find out how to do in 20 minutes on the internet........

C8H10N4O2 · 06/12/2017 20:01

And there is an enabling issue.

But Bert think of all those lovely shelves which might not appear if we expect adults to be adults.

Someone has to think of the shelves.

chiaseeddisapointmentagain · 06/12/2017 20:05

Not all men just the ones whose wives are doormats and cater to their every whim and want as you've demonstrated.

LemonShark · 06/12/2017 20:30

This entire issue is not about blaming women. It's about expecting and demanding more from men, who are the only ones who can change their behaviour. That's the exact opposite to putting the onus for change on women.

haveacupoftea · 06/12/2017 21:03

I do find it funny that even the feminists on this thread complain that OP has stated all men are like her DH, and then go on to blame her for his failings. It's always the woman's fault. If not his wife it must be his mothers fault for spoiling him.

LemonShark · 06/12/2017 21:24

When will people realise that enforcing strong healthy boundaries and expectations is literally the opposite thing from taking responsibility for someone else's actions? 🙄

BertrandRussell · 06/12/2017 21:34

Haveacupoftea- i think you are either misreading the posts by feminists or misidentifying feminists!

It is also important to remember that being a feminist does. Or mean you have to agree with or support any other woman's opinions or actions

Blessyourheart · 06/12/2017 21:41

Enabling doesn't mean blame. The op had options.

My DS forgot his packed lunch every Friday for three weeks. The first week I was working from home and took it to school. The second, I was working away and DH sorted it out. The third I was away again and told ds if he forgot his lunch he'd need to sort something out himself. He forgot and sorted it out. I know he'd be allowed a school dinner, he just doesn't like the choice on Friday. The next week he made his own lunch and remembered to take it to school. He'll most definitely forget it again and he'll sort it out. If dh forgot his wallet, lunch or whatever, I doubt he'd mention it tbh.

Domani · 07/12/2017 04:12

My dh actually makes more work for himsrlf nearly every day! ie: last night we decided to use up some veg and beansprouts which were in the fridge. He was cooking. He brought me my meal and it was just the beansprouts mixed with a tin of bamboo shoots and a few chunks of leftover ham. He'd actually bypassed the old veg in the fridge to get to the ham! The meal was about snack size.When I queried where the veggies were he looked blank as if we hadn't even discussed it. He then had to return to kitchen, keep the small meals warm, stirfry the veg in another pan (because he'd put the other to soak), add the veggies to the other and get bigger plates! He does things like this regularly. I just don't get it? 27 years he's been doing things like this!

laudanum · 07/12/2017 04:20

Generally men don't do very well unsupervised. Wink

ShowMePotatoSalad · 07/12/2017 06:08

"Some men do this, usually because the women in their life let them get away with it."

This annoys me. Why would a woman have to be responsible for what a man does or doesn't do?

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 07/12/2017 06:37

It's like she wants people to say there is nothing we can do about it

But sometimes it feels that way. Has anyone successfully “trained” a strategically incompetent husband?

Is the only choice to leave? That’s not a fair choice at all.

In an ideal world one could blame an individual woman for putting up with such nonsense, but in the real world options are limited and you have to be realistic about what you can expect when marrying a man.

It’s a bit like saying “I don’t want a man who watches porn”. Your pool of eligible men shrinks to a minus power. Plus a lot of men aren’t housework-shy till they are married so how would you know?

Sallystyle · 07/12/2017 06:44

you have to be realistic about what you can expect when marrying a man.

What does that even mean?

BertrandRussell · 07/12/2017 06:51

"you have to be realistic about what you can expect when marrying a man."

It does not seem unrealistic to expect him to be a functioning adult human being..........

BertrandRussell · 07/12/2017 06:52

Actually, is that why people are always saying feminists hate men? Because we expect them to be functioning adult human beings?

C8H10N4O2 · 07/12/2017 07:40

IfyouseeRitaMoreno

All men watch porn and you have put up with workshy men who won't change?

Dear gods, I'm not sure if you hate men or just classify them with children.

Anatidae · 07/12/2017 08:04

you have to be realistic about what you can expect when marrying a man.

I expected us to be equals with respect. I expected a 50:50 division of child rearing and household labour and out of house work. I expected that over time that might ebb and flow and one of us might have to carry the other through bad times, sickness or redundancy but that all being well it’d even out in the end.

It took me a long time to find a man who fitted those criteria. I look around at a lot of peoples partnerships in our circle and some are like ours. Some have the effort distributed differently but still maintain a degree of equality and respect for each other (trailing spouses, sahps.)

But a surprising number of them are composed of women doing a full time job and still doing the back shift of childcare when they get home while the man puts his feet up because he’s had a hard day. And NONE of them are composed of men scurrying around flogging themselves into the floor while the wife waltzes in and announces she’s had a tough day at the office so she’s going to sit down.

We can and should strive for equality in our own homes. But we also need to ask why society is set up to facilitate men but not women.

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2017 09:02

"Some men do this, usually because the women in their life let them get away with it."

This annoys me. Why would a woman have to be responsible for what a man does or doesn't do?

Women need to be responsible for what THEY do or don't do.

And that very much includes mothering their husbands and partners.

In a new relationship, we need to make sure we never go down that route.

In an established relationship where the woman realises she's been mothering/enabling her DP, she needs to wake up and make changes...even if just small steps to start.

That's taking responsibility for yourself, not for the man.

Fluffyears · 07/12/2017 12:08

Not all men unless i’ve been living With a well disguised woman for 10 years!

JaneyJones · 07/12/2017 13:44

'Women need to be responsible for what THEY do or don't do.'
Yes I'm not sure why people set up home with such hapless men. Did some really have no idea how useless their dp might be?

AutumnMadness · 07/12/2017 14:08

JaneyJones, do you really not know the answer to this question? Perhaps a simple word substitution will provide an answer: 'Why do people set up home with such abusive men. Did some really have no idea how abusive their dp might be?'

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