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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Meghan and Harry don't look right together

367 replies

bungle99 · 04/12/2017 18:32

I was in small shop earlier with only 4 of us in their. I am a regular customer.
I heard a member of staff who was serving another customer talking about Meghan and Harry and staff member said they don't really look right together and that she's not an English Rose like Kate Middleton. I was really shocked by this because 1) that people of my generation actually think like this (middle age) 2) that she admitted this view out loud knowing i could actually hear it (i'm not white). I was only 3 feet away.

AIBU to think that this was a racist comment and that most white people do not think like this ? Please restore my faith Mumsnet.

OP posts:
RoseWhiteTips · 06/12/2017 15:06

... with being English nor...

MikeUniformMike · 06/12/2017 15:14

Isn't an "English rose" a poetic term. A bit like Irish colleen. AFAIK, the fair(ish)-haired blue eyed pretty young woman definition is the one that sounds right. Irish colleen could be a young irish woman or girl.

Does it really matter?
I think Meghan is gorgeous and Kate must be mighty glad that her bil has found someone who makes him happy.

Bettercallsaul1 · 06/12/2017 15:22

FlowerPot You gave yourself away with your last point. You don't like the idea of Meghan Markle being popular and welcomed in this country, do you? I wonder why.

The thread is not about the definition of the phrase English rose. That in itself has no significance at all. It is about the fact that someone said that Meghan Markle didn't look right with Harry because she wasn't an English rose. I've already explained the significance of this in an earlier post so I'm not going to bother again.

^RoseWhiteTips* You're a Middleton, aren't you? Are you Carole? Grin

buttercupmeadow · 06/12/2017 15:29

No i don't need to go to spec savers. Harry is very ordinary looking particularly, it's only because he's a royal and was once considered very eligible, but he's certainly not above average. Imo neither is Meghan.
I refuse to have people tell me who is gorgeous, we all have different tastes.

RoseWhiteTips · 06/12/2017 15:40

Harry is certainly not a looker. But he is a prince so everything falls into place. People are allowed to judge his appearance, surely?!
The puffed up indignation being exhibited by some posters is amusing but silly.

AnotherDunroamin · 06/12/2017 15:52

My in-laws exclaimed, in a horrified way that they 'could have a black baby'.
Do your in-laws understand how genes work? Or do they know something the rest of us don't about Harry's secret, black, grandfather? 😂

buttercupmeadow · 06/12/2017 15:56

I know rosewhite.... why do people get so indignant on their behalf. I bet they wouldn't get so het up over us poor ordinary sods. I mean they have huge advantages over any of us lot, do we all have to believe on top of all that they're drop dead gorgeous too. It was the same with Diana, we were constantly told she was beautiful but i personally didn't see it. Every eye forms it's own beauty as they say.

Sparklemummyx0x0x · 06/12/2017 16:01

I didn't realise she isn't white, I presumed she was just tanned or had that natural tone. As some people do. No idea why that would be. I haven't given it any thought on her skin colour to be honest. That's mostly why I queried the racist angle.
Sorry I'm out of the loop. I had to google her.

FlowerPot1234 · 06/12/2017 16:11

Bettercallsaul1
FlowerPot You gave yourself away with your last point. You don't like the idea of Meghan Markle being popular and welcomed in this country, do you? I wonder why.

Confused My last point which you refer to was a statistical validity point in reply to your claim which was that a group of royal wavers who chose to come out to wave at H and MM represented the majority of UK citizens. That logical leap of yours is, obviously, ludicrous.

Then you make another series of peculiar leaps which are I don't like MM being popular and welcomed into this country (what, as a person or as H's future wife? As a person if others welcome her and like her that's up to them, as H's future wife I think an ex-stripper is not suitable, but that hasn't got anything to do with my post).

I wonder why. You wonder why what? You wonder about your ludicrous series of illogical leaps. I wonder too! Hmm Or what do you mean exactly?

The thread is not about the definition of the phrase English rose. That in itself has no significance at all.
How can you possibly say the definition of a phrase which is being discussed here on this thread (14 pages so far) has nothing to do with its definition? These pages are full of posters debating its meaning and their perceived motivation behind the speaker which the OP overheard. One cannot begin to discuss motivation behind words without first understanding the definition of the words.

It is about the fact that someone said that Meghan Markle didn't look right with Harry because she wasn't an English rose.
Er... yes, that's the very phrase which I said is paramount to understand, and you strangely say this thread has nothing to do with. Hmm

I've already explained the significance of this in an earlier post so I'm not going to bother again.
That's OK, I'm not asking you to explain your chosen perceived significance of a phrase whose actual definition you don't want to know anything about.

Bettercallsaul1 · 06/12/2017 16:23

RoseWhiteTips Noone has been so het up or puffed up with indignation as you on this thread when you imagined some insult was being made to your daughter Kate Middleton! Three or four posters immediately commented on your over-reaction.

Buttercup People are getting het up in this thread over racism. Racism is equally wrong whether it's aimed at the upper echelons of society or "poor ordinary sods", as you put it.

LostMyMojoSomewhere · 06/12/2017 16:24

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buttercupmeadow · 06/12/2017 16:45

bettercall i think people should get het up too over the racism in the RF. Meghan is going to have as her grandfather in law someone who feels no shame in the most vile racism i've ever heard. It's to be hoped he learns how to tone it down. It's shocking.

buttercupmeadow · 06/12/2017 16:47

oh and i was referring to people who got het up over their looks.

Bettercallsaul1 · 06/12/2017 17:52

FlowerPot
The crowds that turned out to greet Harry and Meghan were no different from the crowds who turn out for any other royal events. All crowds are self-selecting in that they decide whether to go out and wave and smile at the royal family. Why would you decide that the people who cheered for Meghan and Harry are somehow less representative of the British public than those turning out for the Queen and other members of the royal family?

What I said was that you do not represent the majority of the people in this country - and again, I repeat, thank God.

This thread has not been simply about the exact definition of the phrase "English rose" and it is disingenuous to pretend that it is. The premise of the thread was that, in the conversation overheard by the OP, the speaker said that Harry and Megan Markle did not look "right" together because she was not "An English Rose". Whether you define this phrase as meaning blonde hair/blue eyes or dark hair/green eyes etc, what the speaker obviously meant was Caucasian. She was saying that a couple of different races didn't "look right" together. This remark was judgemental and racist and very reminiscent of attitudes underlying the Apartheid system in South Africa or America in the time of the Jim Crowe laws, which forebad interracial marriage. It is this question that is the significant one in this thread, not the exact definition of "English rose".

There is no evidence whatsoever that Meghan Markle worked as a stripper. If she had, you can be sure that someone would be posting photos on the Internet as we speak. Her agent may well have advertised her in this way early in her career when desperately looking for work (along with the equally unlikely description of "juggler"), but there is no evidence whatsoever that she actually worked as a stripper. What she is known for - along with being a successful actress - is being very active in charity work, espousing little-known causes such as the provision of sanitary wear for girls in India.

She came over as an intelligent, charming and committed person on her TV interview with Prince Harry and I'm quite sure that most of the country warmed to her as much as I did.

expatinscotland · 06/12/2017 17:57

'and I'm quite sure that most of the country warmed to her as much as I did.'

Polls show most of the country are indifferent to the whole thing Hmm. Many people have too much going on with the economy going down the swanny to be bothered about this load of over-blown scroungers.

Bettercallsaul1 · 06/12/2017 18:10

They're not all the same, expat, and I say that as a republican. The qualities I respect in anyone doing a job are: a willingness to work hard, commitment and enthusiasm. I think, given her previous record, Markle will take the role seriously and fulfil her duties as a member of the royal family. As long as we have this institution, I want people in it who are actually going to take it seriously - which some of the rest of the family do not.

expatinscotland · 06/12/2017 18:28

They all derive great wealth from umpteen offshore investments to avoid paying tax and whose investment portfolio includes the likes of Brighthouse who rip off the British poor, whilst taking tens of a millions a year in taxpayer funds. In that respect, they are all the same. That's fucking shameful and it's a sad indictment of society that they still have so many deluded sycophants.

LostMyMojoSomewhere · 06/12/2017 18:35

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Bettercallsaul1 · 06/12/2017 18:50

Well, I'm not sure who you are calling a deluded sycophant. Grin I have already said that I am a republican and, if we were given a vote on it, I would abolish the monarchy tomorrow. However - that was never the point of this thread - which was reactions to a racist comment about Meghan Markle. Racism is should be challenged at whatever level of society it is aimed at.

GingerbreadMa · 06/12/2017 19:23

"Irish colleen could be a young irish woman or girl. ".
Irish college = the "Galway girl" look: dark hair, pale skin/freckles & blue eyes.
It's about racial heritage (specifically the combination of Celtic and Spanish armada genes and the resulting look)
It does not just mean any female citizen of Ireland.
Just as English Rose doesn't mean any female British citizen

GingerbreadMa · 06/12/2017 19:24

"Colleen not college"

Bettercallsaul1 · 06/12/2017 19:59

It's about racial heritage

Exactly, GingerbreadMa!

FlowerPot1234 · 07/12/2017 16:40

Bettercallsaul1
Why would you decide that the people who cheered for Meghan and Harry are somehow less representative of the British public than those turning out for the Queen and other members of the royal family?

There you go again. I didn't write that, did I? You just made that up. I didn't write that so I cannot say why I decided something you have just made up in your head. You are talking around your own fiction. Read again precisely what I wrote. I said that a self-selecting group waving at MM and H are not representative of the majority of the British people. It is pure statistical fact. How you cannot get your head around that is utterly beyond me. Hmm

What I said was that you do not represent the majority of the people in this country - and again, I repeat, thank God.

No, you lie. You actually wrote: Luckily the enthusiastic reaction of the crowds on her and Harry's first public walk-about demonstrated that the majority of people in this country don't agree. That, as I wrote before, is statistically ludicrous. The reaction of the crowds who came out does not demonstrate that the majority of people in this country don't agree with your previous line which was to denigrate Megan Markle and non-White people generally. To say a group of hand wavers represents the majority of people in this country is madness.

The premise of the thread was that, in the conversation overheard by the OP, the speaker said that Harry and Megan Markle did not look "right" together because she was not "An English Rose". Whether you define this phrase as meaning blonde hair/blue eyes or dark hair/green eyes etc, what the speaker obviously meant was Caucasian.

The speaker meant English Rose. English Rose happens to mean Caucasian. The speaker didn't obviously mean Caucasian, they obviously meant English Rose. If they meant Caucasian, they would have said white. They didn't. They meant English Rose. I know you absolutely desperately want to see racism everywhere you look, but it's not here. She meant a specific look familiar with English Culture.

She was saying that a couple of different races didn't "look right" together.
No, you have just made that up in your head again. She was saying that she felt Prince Harry should be with an English Rose. Any translation of the type of look that this woman felt Prince Harry in particular should be with into *a couple of different races didn't look right together" is a massive leap of logic and subject matter, and is all 100% made up in your own mind. Why are making things up like this?

This remark was judgemental and racist and very reminiscent of attitudes underlying the Apartheid system in South Africa or America in the time of the Jim Crowe laws, which forebad interracial marriage
Oh my god, that just made me laugh out loud. Can you hear yourself?

There is no evidence whatsoever that Meghan Markle worked as a stripper.
Why did MM put it as work experience on her own CV then?

What she is known for - along with being a successful actress - is being very active in charity work, espousing little-known causes such as the provision of sanitary wear for girls in India.
Most people I know had never heard of her until the Daily Mail started doing stories about her with Prince Harry. Never seen her on TV, know nothing about her charity work. So no, she is not generally known for any of this.

She came over as an intelligent, charming and committed person on her TV interview with Prince Harry and I'm quite sure that most of the country warmed to her as much as I did.
You believe that. I believe she came over as untruthful and tacky, and was inappropriate in her pouty and strutting poses that lacked decorum. We differ. Unlike you, I'd never be so arrogant or ignorant to claim anything about most of the country agreeing with me, no matter how desperate I was to believe it. Hmm

Humpsfor20yards · 07/12/2017 17:22

Flowerpot can also be found spreading her hate on the Alexandra Burke thread or weeping for joy, yes, really, over brexit.

FlowerPot1234 · 08/12/2017 10:35

And Humpsfor20yards can be found stalking me like a nutcase any time I post on any board any opinion which differs to their own, just because I challenged her once on her hypocrisy and asked for evidence to her crazy claims, and she didn't have an answer.

And always inferring the most extreme and bizarre motivations. Like she's done here. Spreading hate on the Alexandra Burke thread? For posting just one message (as others did) that asked isn't she the one who falsely claimed she was homeless and penniless from being a teenager when it turned out she wasn't, and claimed she was an unknown, undiscovered girl when in fact her mother had arranged a session with Stevie Wonder. That, and any opinion whatsoever that disagrees with her, is spreading hate in Humpsfor20yards world. Go figure. Hmm