The erosion of women

[IHATEPeppaPig]

I know, I know 'not another Trans thread' BUT, I am truly interested in people's opinions on this - I was always of the thought that I don't really care how anyone expresses themselves, carry on as you wish and I do still think this to varying degrees but I am concerned about the Trans agenda moving forwards and the erosion of women and reading through Twitter I found the following articles attached to this tweet:

I'm not personally interested in breastfeeding or giving birth. But the #terf assumption that these abilities are "biologically" reserved for AFAB is just one thing: wrong.

www.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/health/uterus-transplant-baby.html

www.thestranger.com/queer-issue-2017/2017/06/21/25225867/my-first-time-breastfeeding-my-daughter

Now, I found the second article creepy - particularly where they mention that they 'got off' on breastfeeding and I'm not entirely sure how factual it actually is but it's scary that people are using this to prove how defunct 'ciswomen' (I HATE this term) are?

Trans women are women
What makes them women?

‘Trans women are well aware that they are not biological women. They know that there is a difference. ‘

If this was the case then we could all pack up and go home, but it’s not.
Trans activists say ‘trans women are women’ in fact it’s pretty much all they say, over and over again.
If you say otherwise you’re a terf and deserve to die in a fire.

Also reading that second article I did not see someone ‘bending over backwards’ to be a better parent. In fact there was very little mention of the child at all, it was all about how is validated his feelings of being a woman.

I have no problem with men doing roles traditionally done by women, i think it’s great in fact. Doesn’t make you a woman though.

I'll never know why some women feel the need to have a definition.

Because without a definition we have no hope in hell of standing up for women's rights and before you know it we have rapists in women's prisons, women losing out in sports to male people and vulnerable women unable to reliably specify a female carer. Among many other issues this throws up.

For those who have not yet worked out what's going on and why we keep having these threads - the law is about to be changed to allow anybody to self-certify as a man or woman. No checks or safeguards, all you'll need is £140 (fee waiver for low income) and a pen.

.

Yes meanings of words change and they are replaced by another definition.
Can we have another definition of a women please? You can’t just say that definition has changed and then not give an alternative.

Non sexed pronouns would suit an equal society more and when we get there we can start using them, but right now we need to have the word woman in law because there are things that happen to women’s bodies because they are women’s bodies. Female genital mutilation doesn’t happen to men, it happens to women and to not be able to name it as such denies people the ability to discuss the structural issues.

Trans activists say ‘trans women are women’ in fact it’s pretty much all they say, over and over again.

They never say that they are biological women and there are absolutely no differences between us. They say that they are women, and in many respects they are. If they have the mind of a woman and have taken steps to alter their body to mimic a females, then in some ways they are a women. They no longer have the testosterone levels or hormones of a man.
However they will always be a trans women. You cannot erase history and on a biological level, they will always be male.
Now I'm not sure what the physical difference is between a person who transitioned before puberty or after, but if after, then their bone structure will be male. You can't alter these things.
Biological women (generally speaking) will produce eggs. They have the 'equipment' to sustain a human life without drastic action. Trans women will never be able to do this.

The same posters get pretty hysterical when you mention you hit peak feminism though.

I’ve lurked on pretty much every thread in this issue over the last year and have never heard anyone use the phrase “peak feminism”, never mind heard anyone get “hysterical” about it (nice anti-women slur there, @fricative).

Sounds a bit like when Trump made up the term “Alt-Left” to justify his support for the Alt-Right.

“If they have the mind of a woman”

Wtf is “mind of a woman”?

“Woman” means Adult human female. It’s not a state of mind.

The evolution of language will never change the meaning of woman to mean man

Of course the definition matters people would die if it didn't.

Medical resources for women for example.

Imagine the wasted millions in unnecessary tests if women meant basically anyone who says so.

Ffs

There does seem an air of scare politics going on with this thread. The idea that two very extreme visions of transwomen are cherry picked out of the bag. The wording reads to me that it's aimed more at saying look this is what all transwomen want. That their goal is to attack, undermine and erode womanhood. In a aim to scare others and feed negativity against transwomen. It's very easy to cherry pick a few negative/contraversal articles to demonise a whole minority who we dislike. We have been doing it for centuries.

I'll never know why some women feel the need to have a definition.

So we have a situation in the world (and in this country) where certain children have their clitorises cut off. Do you not think it would be useful to have a name for what these children have in common? To be able to quantify and aim to prevent this happening.

See also child marriages, female infanticide, 'gendered' violence, 'gender' pay gap.

We need to be able to pinpoint the problem and name it in order to have any hope of resolving it.

1DAD - do you have daughters? If so, how do you feel about men being able to enter their toilets, changing rooms, safe spaces etc because they "identify" as women? How do you feel about the "transwomen are women" argument??

@fricative

"radical feminists realise that most of their other arguements are falling apart and this is simply something to get their teeth into. Give them a misguided purpose."

I'm really interested in this statement that you made. Would you be able to expand on what arguments rad fems put that are falling apart? Can you say why you think rad fems aren't taking up other kinds of feminism that presumably are clearly winning the debate?

Wtf is “mind of a woman”?

Would also be interested to know what this is. Do I have one? How would I tell?

They never say that they are biological women and there are absolutely no differences between us.

Err, yes they do:

medium.com/@juliaserano/transgender-people-and-biological-sex-myths-c2a9bcdb4f4a

everydayfeminism.com/2017/02/trans-women-not-biologically-male/

Just the first couple to come up on a google search. Go to Twitter or Tumblr for hundreds of examples.

‘They have the mind of a woman’ what does that mean????? What do women’s minds have in common?

And yes they do say they are biological women.

everydayfeminism.com/2017/02/trans-women-not-biologically-male/

In what ways are women's rights different to human rights?
Human rights apply to everyone; women's rights apply to women and attempt to address the discrimination and vulnerability they experience because of their biology.

Of course human rights apply. And if women need safe spaces to protect them from male violence, that's part of their human rights.
Because there's specific male on female violence.

Men don't hate women.

Some men do.

The men who don't aren't peddling this sort of nonsense. I thought that would be obvious.

God, spot the MRA trolls. Some of these posters are clearly blokes out to bang the drum against feminism, and they'll use the trans thing to further their agenda. Fine. Just hope you're willing to fuck big hairy men with willies who are actually delicate flowers called Delilah. Because they're really, really women, you know. In fact, they are realer women than the nasty feminists, because they want to wear pretty dresses and sparkle!

I'm a real woman, and currently I'm off work sick as I'm suffering from severe hyperemesis. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. I'm probably going to have to fight my corner at work against discrimination as a pregnant WOMAN. But at the minute I'm too weak. I'm lying sideways on my sofa and when I have to sit up, I'll vomit.

That's my experience as a woman, it's nothing to do with lady brain or liking pink, it's to do with my biology, how my female body is out of my control, how I'm suffering in ways that nobody with a penis ever will. So excuse me if I want my rights as a woman protected, and anyone who uses the word "cis" in my presence shall be boked upon

If you think 'hysterical' is misogynist then there's no helping you

You clearly don't understand the etymology of the word 'hysterical' then.

So I looked into mosaic brain theory and came across this study.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687544/

Which basically debunks the idea of a male of female brain and says we all have elements of all the characteristics, which is exactly what feminists are saying. There isn’t a ‘female’ brain.

Conclusion
‘The lack of internal consistency in human brain and gender characteristics undermines the dimorphic view of human brain and behavior and calls for a shift in our conceptualization of the relations between sex and the brain. Specifically, we should shift from thinking of brains as falling into two classes, one typical of males and the other typical of females, to appreciating the variability of the human brain mosaic.‘