The erosion of women

[IHATEPeppaPig]

I know, I know 'not another Trans thread' BUT, I am truly interested in people's opinions on this - I was always of the thought that I don't really care how anyone expresses themselves, carry on as you wish and I do still think this to varying degrees but I am concerned about the Trans agenda moving forwards and the erosion of women and reading through Twitter I found the following articles attached to this tweet:

I'm not personally interested in breastfeeding or giving birth. But the #terf assumption that these abilities are "biologically" reserved for AFAB is just one thing: wrong.

www.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/health/uterus-transplant-baby.html

www.thestranger.com/queer-issue-2017/2017/06/21/25225867/my-first-time-breastfeeding-my-daughter

Now, I found the second article creepy - particularly where they mention that they 'got off' on breastfeeding and I'm not entirely sure how factual it actually is but it's scary that people are using this to prove how defunct 'ciswomen' (I HATE this term) are?

Everything that goat has said with bells on

Trans women are women. Reassuring that at least some people on here share that opinion. All the recent rampant transphobia on here is really off-putting

So please engage, and tell us what makes someone a woman. Don't just plop the above and then walk away accusing everyone of transphobia.

What makes someone a woman? What is that definition?

And it's all the worse that there are women blindly supporting this.

I really don't understand the throwing around of the word 'transphobia'. It's just utterly ridiculous.
Transwomen are transwomen - obviously. They may feel like women, they may look like women, they may think they're women. But they simply aren't. It really isn't offensive, it's just a fact.
Noone here is transphobic, and I'm sure we'll all agree that transpeople are entitled to live free from exploitation, fear, abuse, discrimination, and violence.
They absolutely deserve their own areas, changing rooms, safe spaces etc.
And just as we all agree that, why don't we all agree that women deserve their own spaces too?

Wish people wouldn’t dismis “what’s the definition of woman?” as mean pedantry when it’s a basic part of feminism.

Either: “woman” is a biological definition describing a sex class. It says nothing about whether you like dresses or pink or not, it says nothing about you having a woman’s brain that thinks in woman ways, it says nothing about what you like or what you can be. There’s no wrong way to feel or act as a woman.

Or: “woman” is about how you feel and act. Your body doesn’t matter, but the way you think and your tastes and preferences do matter, they’re what defines ‘woman’.

Why should I as a feminist (and mother of daughters) ditch definition #1 in favour of definition #2?

Being male or female is not a completely different person. Herein lies the issue

I meant physically a different person..you couldn't crase to exist then have every cell come back carrying different information and be exactly the same person Like triggers broom.

You could look the same act same etc

Like flap jacks. All.look the same.but different recipes.

Here is a good article written by Miranda Yardley for The Sun (!).

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/4882764/miranda-yardley-comment-gender-nuetral-changing-rooms-topshop-topman/amp/

original

The difference between gender and sex is not ‘semantics’ they mean different things!
The conflation of the two is incredibly dangerous, regressive and feminists have literally spend the past four decades trying to dismantle it.

Gender is the social performance and construct of the differences between the sexes and sex is the biological reality that is needed to create babies.
Gender changes depending on the society you are on and sex stays the same as it’s innate.

Women are kept in their place through gender BUT they are also oppressed because of their biology, being the category of human that has the babies makes you physically vulnerable and we need legal protections that name that. Women’s issues such as abortion, contraception, pregnancy, periods, we need to be able to name them as women’s issues so we can legislate on them properly. If we say trans women are women then we lose the ability to say that thinks like maternity rights make it difficult for women to be equal to men in the workplace, because it won’t be true because women as a class won’t be the ones having the babies.

I've really struggled with this because I'm as liberal as they come. I would fight for anyone to be treated fairly and not discriminated against. I'm not a "transphobe" in any way shape or form. I am a compassionate and caring human being.

But it's so frustrating that TRAs will not engage in a reasoned discussion and look for solutions to the clash of rights here instead of throwing insults around and then pissing off.

Trans people are trans people. They should be respected, protected, not discriminated against and recognised as trans people. Why does taking this viewpoint make me transphobic?

Still wondering why there aren't transmen activists writing articles against real men; why there aren't acronyms designed to silence real men against transmen; why there aren't acts of violence from transmen against real men...

I think it's because it's nothing to do with equality and recognition and all to do with men hating women.

Transactivsim is just misogyny wearing a different dress.

Transwomen are women?

I don’t think for one minute you believe that unquestioningly.

Nobody can change biology... Or can they?

I was reading an article in the paper yesterday about the poor Rohinga (sp?) girls being sold into prostitution in Pakistan, having fled their burning villages.

And I couldn't help but think that is what being a woman means.

I'll never know why some women feel the need to have a definition
I have no idea what to say in terms of this debate.

As a developmental biologist, my entire research career would have been useless without a definition of ‘woman’.

That breastfeeding article is so creepy. So the woman who just gave birth is lying there being stitched up, her own breasts swollen and painful, while "sperm donor mom" snatches the baby away and tries to get it to suck their man-nipple to justify how feminine they are?

Selfish fuck.

Trans women are not women.

Wear what you want but don't sacrifice my rights based on important and relevant biological difference.

‘I'll never know why some women feel the need to have a definition‘

Because that’s how people talk to each other and understand each other in order to debate and create society. It’s how laws are understood and how language works.

It’s been a long time since I write anything academic but I remember having to set the definitions of my terms in my introduction before I could carry on with my paper.

All that aside though, even though you don’t understand why it’s needed, could you do it?

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-caught-extreme-animal-porn-13399570

Are those stating "women are women" happy with the fact that this man says they're a woman? That crime statistics and data will be skewed to show that sexual crimes by women are on the increase?? If I'm not happy about that does that make me a transphobe?!

There are loads of reasons why we need a definition. Women have come to harm because

1. Drug tests traditionally only had male (people with penises) participants, meaning that women are often damaged because drugs react differently in female (no penis) bodies.
2. Crash test dummies were based on men, women died unnecessarily because female bodies were not deemed important enough to base crash test dummy heirs and weights on.
3. Male violence. Current figures show that 2 women a week are killed by men. Add to this the number of women raped, assaulted, harassed? Certainly NAMALT, but the vast majority of women have faced one of the above at some point, and sometimes repeatedly. Statistics show that transwomen rates of violence are the same as men. Perhaps because they're men.
4. The glass ceiling. We've already passed the point in the year where women work for free, when we compare our average salaries with men's average salaries.
5. Women worked tirelessly to get the vote, to become sportswoman in their own right, to have safe spaces when they need to be separate from men (given the scary stats around death, rape, assault, harassment - see above).

Yet we're supposed to roll over, say there's no need for a separate definition, and get fucked over again?

Thing is, women have they place in this world. Yes 'men' might now be able to do things that were exclusively ours (breastfeeding etc) but there is no use feeling threatened.
Rather than seeing it as 'men stealing our identity' surely it's just more parents bending over backwards to be better parents?
Trans women are well aware that they are not biological women. They know that there is a difference.
No matter who or what someone else is, you'll always be you and I'll always be me. These days I consider myself lucky for being born into the 'right' body. I'm lucky that I haven't had to pump by body full of chemicals and drugs, that I haven't had to undergo surgery to just be me. I like what I like, I am feminine and I am female.

There will always be a 'demand' for biological men and women. If nothing else because there are many men and women who wouldn't be in a sexual relationship with someone who is trans.

Great post goat